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The Flat Earth Psyop and Canard Against Religion and Pre-Modern Civilization


The myth of the flat Earth is a modern misconception that Earth was widely believed to be flat rather than spherical during the Middle Ages in Europe. But in reality during the Early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint, which had been first expressed by the ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat Earth among educated Europeans was almost nonexistent.

“Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life” author Stephen Jay Gould wrote that “there never was a period of ‘flat Earth darkness’ among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth’s roundness as an established fact of cosmology.”

Additional historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that “there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth’s] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference.”

The flat earth psyops and lie was used to point to the ignorance of certain parties, and in particular the Catholic Church. It has been drummed up again by the usual suspects as something called the “flat earth theory” in recent years to be used as a catch basket to associate with and ridicule “conspiracy theorists.”

The flat earth model has often been incorrectly supposed to be church doctrine by those who wish to portray the Catholic Church as being anti-progress or hostile to scientific inquiry.

It is also used to convey the idea that ancients were generally ignorant and not as advanced as they really were. In “Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians” Jeffrey Russell describes the Flat Earth theory as a fable used to impugn pre-modern civilization.

The Earth is Flat Canard in Action

James Hannam wrote:

The myth that people in the Middle Ages thought the Earth is flat appears to date from the 17th century as part of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching. But it gained currency in the 19th century, thanks to inaccurate histories such as John William Draper’s History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science (1874) and Andrew Dickson White’s A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896). Atheists and agnostics championed the conflict thesis for their own purposes, but historical research gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy than fact in their efforts to prove that science and religion are locked in eternal conflict

The flat-Earth myth, like other myths, took on artistic form in the many works of art and story telling displaying Columbus defending the sphericity of the Earth before the Council of Salamanca. American artists depicted a forceful Columbus challenging the “prejudices, the mingled ignorance and erudition, and the pedantic bigotry” of the churchmen.

This bogus history seemed to have originated with Washington Irving (author of “The Legend of Sleepy Hollow”) in his four-volume series titled “A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus.”

This quote attributed to Ferdinand Magellan (1480-1521) is another lie and fabrication. The issue before Magellan was not the shape of the Earth, but its size.

“The Church says the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow of the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church,” he said.

American historian Jeffrey Burton Russell traced the 19th century origins of what he called the Flat Error to a group of anticlerical French scholars, particularly to Antoine-Jean Letronne and, indirectly, to his teachers Jean-Baptiste Gail and Edme Mentelle. Mentelle had described the Middle Ages as 12 ignorant centuries of “profound night,” a theme exemplified by the flat-earth myth in Letronne’s “On the Cosmological Opinions of the Church Fathers.”

Historian of science Edward Grant makes a case that the flat-Earth myth developed as a faked extreme assault upon the Middle Ages scholastic thought.

In Thomas Jefferson’s book “Notes on the State of Virginia” (1784), framed as answers to a series of questions (queries), Jefferson uses the “Query” regarding religion to attack the idea of state-sponsored official religions.

The first president of Cornell University, Andrew Dickson White’s advocated that it be established without any religious ties but be “an asylum for science.” In addition, he was a strong advocate for Darwinism, saw religious figures as the main opponents of the Darwinian evolution, and sought to project that conflict of theology and science back through the entire Christian Era.

In Walt Disney’s 1963 animation “The Sword in the Stone,” wizard Merlin (who has traveled into the future) explains to a young Arthur that “man will discover in centuries to come” that the Earth is round and rotates.

For more on anti-religious black propaganda read “The Spanish Inquisition as ‘Black Legend’ Propaganda.”

68 Comments on The Flat Earth Psyop and Canard Against Religion and Pre-Modern Civilization

  1. Hmm… Here’s a scientific fact: A body of gas cannot exist next to a vacuum unless there is a barrier between the two. Yet the Earth has a gas atmosphere and space is a vacuum and there isn’t a barrier… I have a horrible feeling we will all have to go back to the very beginning and start again to find our way out of the mesh of deception wrapped around us.

    • >Yet the Earth has a gas atmosphere and space is a vacuum and there isn’t a barrier…

      LOL — gas is composed of molecules which have mass, and gravity acts on mass — the Earth’s gravity binds the atmosphere (air), which is denser at lower altitudes not only due to stronger gravitational force, but also due to the pressure/weight of the air above (at very high altitudes the ‘pull’ of the vacuum of space is probably also a factor in thinning the air).


      • Although you have had many excellent replies and links today, this was the one that I wanted to get to. Even though you were responding to an older post, which I thought was respectful even it I disagreed with it; I felt your response was top notch!

        Now I am not going to go all “…ancient astronaut theorists say YES.” on you; however, I would like to mention how your response made me think about Venus quite a bit. There are some reasonable suggestions that we should be spending more effort, resources and time studying Venus as opposed to Mars (which I guess President / Uncle Joe believes we are already occupying based on last week’s speech? or whatever it was).

        The basis for these suggestions is simply the hypothesis that Venus was a lot more like Earth at some point in its history. There is the theory that being knocked out of its orbit (cause unknown) and the evolution of the Sun has caused changes in its mass, volume of gas and what may have been some level of solidity at the surface.

        Since I still would like to write my own post, I will conclude here; however, I can share links if you decide that you might find them interesting. Either way, I really enjoyed your response.


      • quote:

        eah APRIL 30, 2021 AT 12:52 PM
        >Yet the Earth has a gas atmosphere and space is a vacuum and there isn’t a barrier…

        LOL — gas is composed of molecules which have mass, and gravity acts on mass — the Earth’s gravity binds the atmosphere (air), which is denser at lower altitudes not only due to stronger gravitational force, but also due to the pressure/weight of the air above (at very high altitudes the ‘pull’ of the vacuum of space is probably also a factor in thinning the air).


        eah: You are mistaken.
        You laugh and yet you failed to realize that the motions of the molecules and vibration of their motion is far more powerful than the force of gravity working on them.
        Therefore, these particles should easily escape from the atmosphere into space.
        However they do not.
        Why not?
        Because there is some kind of barrier preventing their escape.
        This barrier could be energy based (something like the Van Allen Belts) or something else entirely.
        Either way, you comment/reply is incorrect because you did not consider that the movement of the particles is far greater than the force of gravity itself.
        You should also know that the force of electromagnetism is far greater than the force of gravity.
        About 40 forty orders of magnitude greater than gravity.
        That should tell you everything about gravity.
        It essentially does not exist .

        • Okay, I was trying to be very light in my first response to you (please see, way above) and add a little humor to the topic; however, I did not know that you were here with a post going after eah. Now you have my attention.

          Shall we begin with:

          “That should tell you everything about gravity. It essentially does not exist .”


          Assuming that an object has either a positive or negative charge (we are speaking “electromagnetism after all), then should we opine that the ground (on Earth) possess an opposite charge or may even be neutral?

          CAVEAT: Before we travel any further, you may wish to bring up Mr. Nikola Tesla, and boy do I think he was swell! Yet, please recall that to light the bulbs in Earth, he did need to dig first. It was not top soil.

          Okay well, if ground is possessing an opposite charge then perhaps Newton’s apple would pull downward and rest, due to the apple being positively charged (due to the acid content), and ground actually possessing a negative charge, hence unlike charges could attract and find equilibrium.

          Yet, based on your post (above) one might opine that you might agree that ground (topographic Earth) has a neutral charge (hence grounding for individuals attempting to reestablish things like circadian rhythms through a neutral action), well if the ground is simply neutral, then why does the apple not float or levitate at the point in which it finds no opposite charge to pull it toward soil?

          And then we work backward and arrive here:

          “eah: You are mistaken.
          You laugh and yet you failed to realize that the motions of the molecules and vibration of their motion is far more powerful than the force of gravity working on them.
          Therefore, these particles should easily escape from the atmosphere into space.
          However they do not.”

          Have you ever frozen water into an ice cube? Do you understand stasis? What are the pole consisting of?

          Sure it is a very delicate balance, based on an oblong object, with a gentle tilt; however, that is a thing of divine beauty (truly divine, a delicate and wonderful creation to be enjoyed by all). In ice molecules slow and whether or not that belt is real remains inconsequential to the fact that at the two major point of planetary exhaust (top and bottom) molecules leaving are doing so at a slower force due to sheer cold.

          Now, many of us at WW love a good counter point (as you did, ABOVE) that is respectful and well presented. What we do not enjoy (so well) is someone simply ripping into one of our, known, friends here.

          Can you challenge eah? Sure.

          Should you be a bit nicer in doing so? You bet your ASS! Speak to hum with respect, and all shall be golden. Try to hurt him, and then you get ME (which I may be only the beginning…who knows).

          Now if you wish to go “toe-to-toe” on all of your points, then get in the ring. Honestly, I have more supportive things to offer for this community, and should now move on.

          Best to you and yours.

          Simple Citizen

          • To: ROSS, eah , Simple Citizen

            It is very simple, therefore there is no need to complicate the issue.

            Imagine two boxes in the shape of a cube.
            One cube is stacked on top of the other and a removable glass pane separates what is in one cube versus the other.

            Imagine the bottom cube is filled with a colored gas no different than oxygen. The top cube is empty which means it is a vacuum.

            Slowly remove the glass pane which was previously separating the two cubes inner volumes from each other.

            What is going to happen ?

            If eah is correct, then the gas in the bottom cube will not move from it’s present location. In other words, the colored gas will remain in the bottom portion and nothing else will happen because of gravity.
            His “it can do everything” force.

            However, we know (since this experiment has been conducted many times already) that the colored gas quickly moves into the upper cube and then dissipates uniformly in both cubes.

            Why ?

            The superficial glib answer is that the vacuum in the upper cube drives the colored gas in the lower cube into the upper cube.
            Viola !
            However, this is NOT an answer.
            Why does this happen ?
            The reason this happens is because the force of gravity is NOT strong enough to keep the particles in the lower cube.
            The gas particles own random “brownian” motion is far greater than any imaginary gravitic force and thus the colored gas quickly moves into the upper cube.

            The above scenario is exactly what would happen at the edge of the Earth’s atmosphere. Except the atmosphere does not escape.


            Simple. Because something is preventing it’s escape.
            This barrier could be physical or energy based but that is a discussion for another time.

            So, ROSS is correct in what he said.
            And eah is incorrect.
            (Ross JANUARY 3, 2019 AT 6:40 PM)

            With respect to your comment about charges and the like, there is no need to discuss that in relation to this very specific issue of gas particles escaping from a given volume.

            However, it might interest you to know that I AGREE WITH YOU about the importance of electrical charges.
            As I stated earlier, it is electrical charge that attracts objects to the Earth.
            That is why objects fall down because they are electrically attracted to the Earth.
            As to whether the Earth is negative and everything else positive, or neutral or vice versa, I suspect that the Earth is positive and we are negative. That seems to fit with human behavior overall.

            Be well,


            • Okay, fair enough; I may not agree with you, but I think you were once again very respectful in presenting your point (as I also mentioned way above).

              What I was taken back with was how you seemed to change in your demeanor when engaging eah. It is great to disagree, talk things out and even find a little commonality; however, I just think we should all be respectful of one another as we explore the truth.

              As I have not seen you here before, I will say that eah is a respected person over here. Have we (eah and simple) disagreed? Sure. Was I respectful? No. Should I have been? You bet. Did I apologize? Yes. eah is a good person who is simply trying to travel with us on a journey to learn a bit more about the world around us.

              Now even if I did not agree with your post, I very much enjoyed the explanation of your perspective (extremely well presented and thought out) and thought it was very solid writing. As for your point, I shall give it more thought; however, on face value I cannot agree. More time and thought is required on my end.

              Please be well, and thanks for coming back to add to the discussion.

              Simple Citizen

              P.S. We do agree about the body electric as a key principle and I will even go so far as to say that often illness may be rooted in a disruption of our own electric fields. We might concur that this is why all of us often feel so much better when we take an alkalizing substance such as a little sodium bicarbonate in a glass of water. It has a calming effect and as we might both agree can cure everything from stomach discomfort to headaches.

              So we are in alignment on this part. Best…

              • You wrote
                “such as a little sodium bicarbonate in a glass of water”.

                This statement alone shows that you understand more than the vast majority of doctors.

                I will go even farther and say that this baking soda is also a cure for cancer but that is a discussion for another time.

                The baking soda/sodium bicarbonate raises the pH of the blood to above 7.5 which makes it impossible for cancer to survive.
                Almost all illnesses are caused by a blood pH level of lower than 6.
                Therefore you are most correct when saying
                “so much better when we take an alkalizing substance” into our body.

                Finally, I am certain that ALL disease and illness is caused by a disruption in our body’s electrical field.
                That is the real cause of all maladies.
                If we can sort that out, we could live for centuries.

                Be well,


                • Many thanks.

                  I will often drink mine as described, but sometimes I will add a little apple cider vinegar for a little boost (I use a straw to protect the teeth when I do this).

                  In terms of cancer, I cannot state a specific direction and / or suggestion; however, I can state some things that I enjoy as personal preferences (not a recommendation of any kind):

                  1. Cycle in H2O2 (food grade) for a couple of weeks in each quarter

                  2. Cycle in bitter apricot seeds a 3 or 4 times per year

                  3. Now I do not own a contrast system, but it is on the list for acquirement:


                  I am from the “school” of an orthomolecular intake of supplements, flooding the body with oxygen, and working to stay alkaline. So I do use a few ideas in cycles (over each year) that have worked for me very well.

                  I try to stay very cognizant of both iodine intake, as well as magnesium.

                  I have enjoyed discussing these topics with you.

                  Please be well, and of course I wish you good health.


            • You said “…and that there is some sort of physical ‘barrier’ containing…”

              I have repeatedly stated that the barrier could be physical OR energy based (akin to the Van Allen radiation belt) .

              You have deliberately chosen either not to read my comment or not to understand it, or perhaps both.

              In closing, this is not about convincing anyone of anything , this is about what the evidence and logic dictates must be so. You should understand this before anything else.

              And the logic and evidence when taken together with consideration of the lies that we have been forced to accept, all of this shows that there is a great deal of evidence and logic indicating that the Earth is NOT a spinning globe.

              It seems you are unable to show your logic
              (e.g. Imagine two boxes in the shape of a cube)

              and to refute my own.

              • logicalprophet,

                Good job! I’ve been involved in many of these back-and-forth debates with those who are afraid to look at the possibility that what we call ‘the Earth’ is not a spinning ball.

                Scientific arguments like your presenting or thought-experiments like- Why are East to West vs West to East airplane trips virtually identical(taking in factors of wind resistance and elevation of the plane as its travelling)if the Earth is spinning from West-to-East at or near 1,000 mph at the Equator? A plane travelling towards the spin of the Earth would arrive(say N.Y. to San Fran.)in a handful of minutes versus the usual approximate 5hrs. 45mins. from S.F. to N.Y.!

                These arguments are insufficient many times to overcome peoples entrenched bias and brainwashing. People have to come to realize the rabbit hole is deeper than they know when they are ready. Many never will be ready because of fear! It’s also just too much information overload when you incorporate all of the other lies we have been force-fed over our lifetimes!

                “Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies”- Nietzsche

              • @Ed in Salt Lake

                >virtually identical

                They’re not — flight time SF to NYC is approx 50 mins (15%) less than NYC to SF — you can check this e.g. here:


                Anyone who travels often knows West to East flights typically take noticeably less time than East to West, due to the jet stream.

                You seem to suggest air would move with the Earth as the Earth spins, implying this happens via friction as the Earth drags the air with it (?) — but air is not dense, so there isn’t enough mass in contact with the Earth to produce sufficient friction — convection via temperature variation has a much stronger influence on air movement.

                • Your not even seeing my point!

                  The Earth in the ‘spinning ball’ model is always spinning, so when planes are flying towards the direction of the spin, the destination(say S.F.) will come towards the plane rapidly. If the Earth spins at 1,000mph at the Equator, and then as you approach the so-called North or South pole that speed is decreased, but is still in the hundreds of mph!

                  And, I don’t know what plane you’ve flown in that takes 50mins to go from S.F. to N.Y. partner? It is shorter by about an hour due to the jet-stream and all other variables being equal, but 50 mins is ridiculous partner. You have obviously never flown that route!



                  And what about planes that land on a runway where the Earth is supposedly spinning at these enormous rates of speed?


                  They would crash and get wrecked, especially an airport that is built perpendicular to the spin of the Earth! A plane landing at say 125mph landing on the Earth at say 700mph, and perpendicular to that spin is going to get wrecked- period! Try jumping on a treadmill at top speed sideways and see what happens!

                • @Ed in Salt Lake

                  >Your not even seeing my point!

                  No, I got your point — but I do have trouble taking someone who doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re seriously.

                  >takes 50mins to go from S.F. to N.Y.

                  I said SF to NYC takes approx 50 mins *less* than NYC to SF — the time difference is even more noticeable on transatlantic flights (I’ve made dozens).

                  But at this point, nothing you say, no matter how idiotic, would surprise me — you’re the same guy who said a plane made primarily of aluminum could not have penetrated the WTC facade.

          • >Can you challenge eah? Should you be a bit nicer in doing so?
            >your demeanor when engaging eah

            Just to note: I had no problem at all with the comments of ‘logicalprophet’, either in tone or content, including the ones directed at me — and that would be true even if they were full of derogatory ad hominem (they weren’t of course) — I’m pretty much a free speech absolutist, and since I would like to be able to occasionally ‘dish it out’ (if I so choose), then I ought to be able to ‘take it’ as well, right?

            • Sure, I understand and will be mindful of your point in the future. I was just attempting to be supportive at the time.


        • A disappointing article considering the quality of the site. Ancient cosmologies are almost all similar in depicting a geocentric universe with a fixed earth. Look to the Hebrew version for a basic blueprint. Heliocentrism is a recent invention courtesy of a priest in the gnostic church. not even 500 years old never mind 6000. Pre-deluvian megalithic structures are more precise than any modern folly and they too used the same knowledge of the stars. Didn’t the Druids venerate Holly ? To say that Heliocentrism is an imposter would be an understatement. Copernicus was a “canon’. George of Big bang too. Which institution owns the most telescopes ? The Bible is unequivocal on the matter of course. The earth has been set up by God, and it is immovable. It cannot be moved. It makes perfect sense if you are able to shed the disbelief. We are not on a spinning ball flying through an infinite chaotic void. The opposite is true and must be hidden from view.

  2. eah, oookaaaaay, explain how, for example, Kauai can be seen from Oahu, over 90 miles away……the entire island should sit a mile below the horizon. The psyop is believing we’re living on a spinning ball! ha ha!

    • I lived on Kauai a couple years. Oahu is not visible. You see Maui from the western shores of Big Island, but much closer. I also grew up in Kansas, and the unobscured horizon wasn’t that far away. A plains dweller would never accept a flat earth.

    • >eah, oookaaaaay, explain how, for example, Kauai can be seen from Oahu, over 90 miles away

      Is your comment meant for me? — what can and cannot be seen on the horizon depends on a number of factors, principally how far away the object is, how tall (e.g. height above sea level), and the curvature of the earth at that point — obviously atmospheric conditions can also affect visibility — all the previous factors except visibility relate generally to what is called line of sight; for line of sight calculations, which are not terribly difficult, obviously you assume perfect visibility.

      Visual Line of Sight Calculations Dependent on Earth’s Curvature

      The Earth has a radius of approximately 3965 miles. Using the Pythagorean theorem, that calculates to an average curvature of 7.98 inches per mile or approximately 8 inches per mile …

      >the entire island should sit a mile below the horizon

      Honestly, that’s ridiculous.

  3. I used to think Flat Earth was a psyop too. I no longer think so. Eric Dubay has done the best work I have seen on this. Here one video, but I recommend looking at others to see how flat earth works.

    Here’s what finally convinced me: We can test it empirically. We can see things from distances we ought not to be able to see them given the curvature of ball 24,901 miles in circumference. Look up the formula and do the work yourself. This falsifies the globe earth theory is it has been presented to us.

    • all your tales of hawaii and kansas belong with tumbleweeds which are not native you preaume to speak for people in kansas so i presume you are full of presumptions ignorant though i mayhaps be in a different world but the way these dumasses run shit i at least get their stinking drift emptying their bilge into your minds

      • Roland, after all the discussion of late concerning low quality troll like statements this gibberish is what you offer. Seriously? I have been too tolerant and nice. Our new policy is to liberally toss this into trash and purge and ban hammer those practicing it. You are done here.

  4. Delete the Elite youtuber thinks that Eric Dubuy lies a lot:
    Farewell, Flat Earth–The Final Fuck You!

  5. Thanks, Russ. for this post. Not only am I getting fed up with folks attacking Christians on here for no reason other than they can (freedom of speech and all), but I am also getting fed up with the flat earth nonsense…mathematically, the Earth cannot be flat (flat earth parallel lines never meet and all, curvature or not). But interestingly enough, two so-called Christians (the British-Israelism kind, who claimed Kepler’s mother was a witch so therefore Kepler and Galileo are wrong just because), actually wrote a book called “The Earth is Not Moving”, claiming Geocentrism (espoused by Tycho Brachi) is true…geocentrism is just a shade above flat earth IMHO)

    • “But interestingly enough, two so-called Christians (the British-Israelism kind, who claimed Kepler’s mother was a witch so therefore Kepler and Galileo are wrong just because), actually wrote a book called “The Earth is Not Moving”, claiming Geocentrism (espoused by Tycho Brachi) is true…geocentrism is just a shade above flat earth IMHO)”

      I never knew this, but will follow-up with a little research. Thanks for putting it up here.


  6. Mr. Winter, it may interest you to look into the relationship modern so-called “science” has with the archaic cult with many sects called “gnosticism” (which is also a branch of satanism.) and it’s previous incarnations in the “mystery schools” Its commonly claimed to be extinct, but this appears to be a PR gloss, as it continues and is actually rather widespread, it just doesn’t call itself by this name much. THis I think is part of the reasn why there is a false conflcit set up between “cience” and religion, as gnosticism and montheism at least has always been at odds with each other

    Even catholicism is one such gnostic sect, and had a dialectic going with other groups & cults, including freemasonry, which itself is also gnostic. The reason for catholicism’s erasure of other sects was not necessarily based out of wanting to clean things up theologically, (Though many well-meaning and even Honest adherents likely thought this, as per usual it was the leaders slithering in the vatican that were the ones pulling the strings, as usually happens with any place of authority if their guard is let down.) but rather because of it’s own territorialism and seeking to be the only “game” in town. As one proof of this, I’ll point ot the veneration/worship of Mary.and comparing it with that given to “sophia” by the gnostics in general. (Additionally compare the “rosary”with buddhism’s mala beads.)

    If you dig enough you’ll find most occult, satanic and other systems trace back to gnosticism in some form, from the manichaen sect’s influence on modern elitist/supremacist cults (klan, nazism, etc.) via their “serpent seed” & nephilim as hybrids false doctrine, to racism against those having high melanin content in their skin (this traces back to misread midrash texts regarding cain’s “mark” & Ham.) evolution as a sort of biological alchemy, or retooled form of kabalistic emmanation concept, (compare kabala with buddhism by the way, and similalry look up the Trimondi’s “the shadow of the dalai lama”.) “big bang” as the gnostic cosmological egg breaking, hermeticism’s influence on the modern new age and “science”, and other false doctrines, adopted as doctrine by what claims to be “science” and yet is not, but is it’s opposite.

    Trace these things & others, and you’ll find such that, whether it’s adherents know or undersand it or not, such leads back to gnosticism, which claims to be wisdom, and yet is not, but is the opposite, for real Wisdom & Truth has no need to hide, and is found in Christ.

  7. Bottom line…Its not the “Flate Earthers” who are the problem…that’s a symptom of the disease. It’s all these Book of Enoch cooks relishing an “End of Days” event to add meaning to their miserable lives

    • Yes my friend, and yet living can be so much fun. It is a real shame that many people do not just take a moment to breathe and be thankful for each breath; it is such a simple little activity that can drive away fear, while adding empowerment.

      We could speak of many of the more positive aspects of the Bible or the Psalms, but it is unneeded, and some of our friends at WW may be atheists or agnostic, which I do believe we all respect. Yet that simple exercise can reconnect an individual to just being alive and thankful for that gift. Unfortunately, I would venture to say that many folks could not even accomplish this simple task for a full minute, much less 5, or 15 or 30…

      Well, I liked your post and it was good to see you on this thread.


  8. Whether or not the Catholic Church accepted the spherical Earth is moot as anyone that embraces the idea of a giant Jew in the sky, the necessity of a dead-jew-on-a-stick to save them from jew-hell and that the self-worshiping hypocrites that call themselves “Jews” are special to God…such a person will turn to Flat Earth idiocy as a natural course. Modern christinsanity is most certainly anti-rational and, also, pro-anything jewish.

    • Hey Rodney, super comment. It cut’em real deep. Did you relieve KOBK on the shift change?

      • Rodney- I was being sarcastic and referencing the prior day’s troll hunt in the comments on the pat robertson article. I know sarcasm doesn’t travel well through the screen, but whatever. I didn’t have the energy to take your comment apart. Please read the comments of that article if you want to understand.
        I am not sure what replies you expect from such a post as yours. Apparently you were thinking it might garner some support, which is silly. Maybe some satanists liked it. For the record I don’t really care about the meant to be mean racist stuff in your comment. I respect people’s right to express themselves, unsavory opinions included. But your comment is of the kind that would-be slayers of this website would use as a justification to do that. It would in fact empower the people you pretend to criticize in your comment, ironically or not. So you show little regard for this website and that reflects badly on you. I am familiar with Jewish criminality and the argument it’s all their fault. If I had to hazard a guess on where the “blame the Jews” argument fits on the sliding scale of the evolution of opinions in a person who researches the conspiracy, I would put it in the early stages, in between the stages of blaming Christians and blaming aliens. It’s usually one of the first things you read about. This is not to say I don’t believe there’s bad Jews, but ALL of them? For the past 2000 years? Sorry but I don’t buy that. I don’t think that highly of them, or any other group of people, to be that clever and organized. This “blame the jews” argument also invokes the same old racial victimization narrative that is used so often today to pick winners and losers. There is blame to be laid, but it’s bigger than any one group of people, and my sentiments are that it is ultimately supernatural, so choose your god wisely.

    • Wow! Is that you Buttercup? Did you learn to tunnel last night so that you could return to us Buttercup? So glad you returned! Now let’s look at the gift you have provided us so lovingly with.

      You have an excellent perspective, backed by a lock tight intellect, and supported by a deep vocabulary. Yet, I would suggest that you really need to get the word “JEW” into more sentences up there. You could have lead off with:

      “Whether or not the JEW Catholic Church accepted the spherical JEW Earth…”

      I mean where is the pizazz? Where is the sizzle? You got to sell this point BOY /LADY / MR. ROBOTO (AI), or no one is ever gonna believe you!

      Do not let the MAN hold you down in that troll position (or all those other positions you feel so vulnerable in), strike out and use that 5th grade education or those 1.5 years of English to send a real message!

      Grow a set (if Mr. Roboto, simply add some cheap steel spheres to the under carriage of the rack), grab em, and sell your textbook hate like a madman / woman / or vengeful computer with laser eyes! We can handle it! Mow us down with that sane intellect, and those laser eyes!


      AN ASIDE FOR OUR WW FRIENDS: We three (me, BTS and RW) had a little issue on the Pat Robertson thread with a troll that has been in and out of here for months (or at least since I began 8 months ago). We finally decided to confront this macho keyboard bully, that we believe is either:

      A. an individual who has set themselves up or has been pointed to WW, by an employer, to drag down the website by any means possible

      B. an AI that is partially set up to troll WW

      and / or

      C. a young person who thinks it is fun to spew and argue because deep down they are pretty lonely

      If you look at the Robertson thread, you will see the entire matter as it occurred over the last 24 hours.

      What BTS is suggesting in his response (see above) is that this is an associate, professional troll, to KOBK, or just KOBK themselves using a tunnel to hide there IP address, which gives us a repeat of yesterday.

      This would indicate that WW is in fact being harassed by folks who do not wish to leave the rest of us alone to enjoy reading, learning together, and simply exploring the topics (individually or as a community).

      Now you are caught up.


      Back to the show…

      Listen you may be Buttercup, or you may be Buttercup’s cubicle associate, or you may be Mr. Roboto, I do not know or care. Either way, if you keep showing up, you will more than likely keep getting banned.

      Why waste your time and energy on WW, when (as I have previously told you) there are so many other fine websites to go pick a fight in? Since you already know that you cannot win here, why not find some low hanging fruit somewhere else?

      Simple Citizen

    • Also, the Church most certainly DID enforce the belief in an Earth-centered universe and persecuted those that proposed a heliocentric view.

      • True, but the challenge to the point of view came from within (parishioners), and although it was an uphill battle the truth came forward. My point was about the evolution of the church and its members being bold in challenging assertions that were incorrect; eventually (over many decades) the church corrected itself and accepted the change.

        As I am not a Catholic anymore, the best I can do is simply discuss the matter from a historical perspective.

        On a different note:

        Hey, I noticed there must be a new writer in today for you “Rodney” or as I call you Buttercup. You seem less riled up and more willing to have a reasonable dialogue.

        Please tell your employer that we like this version of you and will be happy to engage in civil dialogues / reasonable conversations (just don’t bring back the other guy, or gal, or robot, or whatever).

  9. At the present moment we have millions of people sitting in front of their computers wearing a mask, afraid of a mysterious flu with a 99.5% chance of survival.
    They aren’t really sure that the Earth is flat or a globe. They really don’t know.

    • RW,

      Respectfully, I do not think that was what Mr. Greg or Greg meant.

      What I took away from his post was that it would be understandable if we see a lot of confusion on WW (in the comments) or in the world in general, due to fear paralyzing one’s thought process. Certainly, I did not think it pertained to the message in the thread.

      More of a “deer caught in the headlights of Conjob-19 cannot really stop to consider other ideas.”


  10. All right, let me start off by saying that I was extremely excited when I caught a glance at this thread’s title this morning and waited with anticipation to when I could sit down and read it through. Needlesstosay, I was not disappointed.

    Now although I was partially raised in a religious faith, I received the standard American, public school, education during the Reagan years. What I can relate from my own experience is that we were very specifically taught the idea that prior to Christopher Columbus the entire world thought Earth was flat (and I was the only student in my Middle School to receive a special award in History as a subject, but I would have primarily studied and recited the lessons taught in my coursework with few exceptions), since the dawn of time.

    As I grew older, I did have some skepticism regarding what older and even ancient societies believed in term of a “flat Earth”; however, I was learning that it was Asian and South American nations that first deviated from the norm, not that European nations also were clear on the spherical nature of this blue marble. Today was the VERY FIRST DAY that I became aware of European understanding regarding the shape of our planet and their knowledge of distance being a key hindrance (not shape) to circumnavigation and exploration. Thank you Winter Watch, this has been time very well spent.

    What I found particularly intriguing was this part:

    “The flat earth psyops and lie was used to point to the ignorance of certain parties, and in particular the Catholic Church. It has been drummed up again by the usual suspects as something called the “flat earth theory” in recent years to be used as a catch basket to associate with and ridicule “conspiracy theorists.”

    The flat earth model has often been incorrectly supposed to be church doctrine by those who wish to portray the Catholic Church as being anti-progress or hostile to scientific inquiry.

    It is also used to convey the idea that ancients were generally ignorant and not as advanced as they really were. In “Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians” Jeffrey Russell describes the Flat Earth theory as a fable used to impugn pre-modern civilization.”

    All I can say is that Mr. Russell’s text will be added to our library over the weekend; I look forward to reading it.

    Certainly this next thought is not an aside, as it does deal with the thread; however, it is a slight deviation from the thread’s main content and point. At the macro-level, I am a little taken back by how long the erasure and re-authoring of history has in fact been going on. So often I think of revision as having a late 19th century inception point due to the rise of the “think tanks”, the change in exclusivity of universities (especially at the ivy league level) and the arrival of “special clubs”; however, obviously I have been a bit naive in this idea.

    Have I heard of this group or that one trying to censure history? Yes.

    Was I aware of the destruction at Alexandria? Sure.

    Have I realized that victors often write history? Yes; however, sometimes that slips due to varying accounts and truth does “will out”.

    Yet, was I aware of a systematic and somewhat continuous desire to consistently destroy truth in order to re-write an accepted version of history, prior to the 19th century? NO, not until it was noted in the thread today.

    It was a great thread to read this Friday, and I am glad to have done so.


  11. We have been lied to about absolutely everything.
    Consider how many lies we have already been told before I get to the punchline:

    (1) COVID-19 hoax, Infection to fatality rate: 0.003%, Real deaths only 6% of all CDC listed deaths
    (2) Election Fraud: Massive computerized, ballot-stuffing theft
    (3) 9/11: Inside job, No airplanes, controlled demolitions of all buildings
    (4) Nuclear Weapons are Fake: There is no radioactive fallout at the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People, animals and plant life are comfortably living there. There is no dangerous thousands-year half-life of radioactive contaminants because all nuclear weapons are fake.
    This also means that Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and present day Fukushima are gigantic scams meant to create fear and steal trillions from humanity. It is working.
    (5) Free Energy: We have had free energy available to us for more than a century but it has been purposely hidden from us. I give two sources here: Atmospheric electricity from travelling magnetic/current lines and Cracking Water similar to Cold Fusion.

    Now considering the above, Is it so hard to believe that the Rockefeller/Rothschilds Mafia is hiding the truth about the true shape of the Earth ?

    Consider that all evidence regarding the shape of the Earth can be categorized into two main classes/categories.

    The first class of evidence :
    (1) Evidence that can be obtained, experienced and verified by independent individuals and regular people.

    The second class of evidence:
    (2) Evidence obtained from 3rd party sources: NASA, ESA, Roscosmos, US DoD etc.

    (Apollo 11 Moon Landing, Hubble Telescope, Voyager 2 ).

    If we consider only class (1) evidence, then without a doubt our senses and eyes tell us that the Earth is flat and stationary.
    (i) The horizon appears flat and remains flat regardless of our altitude.
    (ii) Roads, bridges and railways do not account for any curvature of the Earth in their construction.
    (iii) Lighthouses are visible from hundreds of miles away.
    (iv) Skydivers jumping out of a plane, land on the ground without any movement or horizontal translation due to the alleged rotation of the Earth.
    (v) When traveling on an airplane, the airplane does not constantly adjust it’s altitude nor pitch for the alleged curvature of the Earth. The airplane remains level throughout the flight. This is impossible if the Earth is a sphere.

    When we consider evidence obtained from class (2), for example from NASA, we have plenty of reasons to be skeptical of such evidence.
    The Apollo 11 Moon landing is a perfect example of hoaxed evidence and fakery. When viewing the details about the alleged landing, an intellectually honest observer can see that it makes no sense.
    Go and watch the lunar module blasting off from the Moon’s surface. You will be left with the distinct impression that the module is being hoisted up from the ceiling by a mechanical crane.

    Why are they lying to us?

    Because if the true shape of the Earth were known to all of humankind , it would have two important consequences:

    (1) A God/Creator must definitely exists. You cannot have a flat stationary Earth (where outer space is a fiction) forming from natural and random processes of science.

    (2) Humans are divine beings. Luminous and magical beings are we, not this crude matter.

    The times are changing with the advent of the internet.
    The truth about the Earth’s shape will come out soon…

    • Okay, this was an interesting post and I am (very honestly) thankful for your work.

      Although I cannot agree with your perspective, I appreciate your conviction and willingness to provide such a comprehensive post. Aside form the Yoda quotation at the end (which on principle I do not have issue with), I think you have delivered a unique perspective.

      Now just to add a little levity (not an insult whatsoever, just something that I truly hope will make you smile a bit), have you ever heard of the “butter wall”?


    • Also, it’s a fact that moonlight is COLD and sunlight is WARM. Therefore the moon is not anreflection of sunlight. This simple fact should cast doubt on the whole story.

      • Actually the ‘go figure’ part would be appropriate If the ‘distance’ part you state
        is true. It’s not. The low angle indicates the sun is farther away – it’s way down
        south as opposed to being higher north and closer > directly overhead. That’s
        the simple explanation in the ‘flat earth’ model – the sun NOT being a gigantic
        ball 93 million miles away, but of course much closer and smaller, which fits.
        See, the main barrier to “accepting” the reality of all the lies is indeed the
        openness to actually accept them. So they invent the terms like cognitive
        dissonance, but that’s just the academic way to say people are reluctant
        to let go of, in some cases, an emotional attachment to their world view
        which was never really theirs anyway – just implanted when they were
        young and impressionable. Also I suppose they don’t want to consider
        or admit they’ve been lied to and fooled about something so simple &
        basic actually. As Eric Dubay in his many videos has pointed out over
        and over, that if ‘science’ is (based on) observation, then what is it we
        can directly observe over and over from any altitude ? Simply that the
        horizon “rises to eye level” everywhere. A better way of putting this is
        that the horizon line – across an entire 180 degree field of vision is …
        are told about earth, it’s dimensions and it’s curvature were true.
        At 8 inches per mile squared, the actual verifiable math regarding
        the supposed curvature, this would DEFINITELY be discernible IF
        it indeed existed, at only a few thousand feet. But it’s NOT. How
        can this be explained ?! Occam’s razor perhaps ? IF curvature
        existed, you would see the earth curving away from you in all
        directions. But you never see this and you never will. Hmmm
        Some very intelligent and often credentialed people as well
        have joined or weighed in on these things. but you don’t a
        degree to see. Eric Dubay is no dummy and his work is
        excellent. Very methodical and understandable. And he
        knows about the jews 🙂 Also there’s a guy with a degree
        in physics who’s a “flat earther” with a youtube channel.
        He calls it ‘Balls Out Physics’. Clever name. Ck it out.
        People on this forum, including the esteemed owner of
        this site, need to drink the coffee and wake the heck up.
        The earth is flat baby !! Deal with it. No – not kidding 🙂

    • Hey Russ, I think a discrediting effort to your site is afoot…The Flat Earthers seem to think this is a fertile site for their nonsense

      (i) The horizon appears flat and remains flat regardless of our altitude.

      Really, regardless of altitude? That would mean that we could then see Antarctica and the North Pole…Any pics? What altitude are we talking about? You say “regardless” so I assume you have proof.

      (ii) Roads, bridges and railways do not account for any curvature of the Earth in their construction.

      And a grain of salt doesn’t roll off a bowling ball either…

      (iii) Lighthouses are visible from hundreds of miles away.

      At night only, they use lights

      (iv) Skydivers jumping out of a plane, land on the ground without any movement or horizontal translation due to the alleged rotation of the Earth.

      and when I jump up I don’t land in Nevada, its called gravity and it takes EVERYTHING with it.

      (v) When traveling on an airplane, the airplane does not constantly adjust it’s altitude nor pitch for the alleged curvature of the Earth. The airplane remains level throughout the flight. This is impossible if the Earth is a sphere.

      And we are not allowed to fly too far East or West since we will wind up in outer space right? Wet compasses don’t lie.

      Here’s a conspiracy..

      Smoking Crystal meth is bad for you.

        • Gentlemen,

          First, happy May.

          Second, I have to concur with the both of you; there just seems to be coordination involved in a manner we do not normally see when new friends arrive and / or pass through here. There seems to be a lack of organic thought and writing.

          Well, I am sorry to see this on WW. The thread was excellent and I definitely gained a great deal from it. Perhaps it will just be this topic that will draw such participants and it will all disappear in future threads. At least we are aware and can be supportive to the blog, RW, Torchy and Mr. Mueller.

          I hope you both have an excellent day and great weekend. BGNZ. I enjoyed every aspect of you rebuttal and even had a nice laugh with some of the points.

          Many thanks to you both.


    • Sigh……as has been said before……it has become…..all……..tiresome……..

      Having listened to the debate for years now, globe vs flat, that really is the best way to describe it…..just all…….tiresome. It literally is almost never that those stuck in the old paradigm of the constant lies that surround us, many of which are addressed on a daily basis on this site, will do any research whatsoever on this particular issue before just blindly and obstinately repeating, parrot like, all of the programming that they have been indoctrinated with. In this paradigm of lies about our reality, probably the biggest lie of them all is that it is “proven” that we live on a globe…and this globe is floating in “infinite space”, surrounded by an uncountable number of planets, stars, suns, galaxies and whatnot.

      Yes, there are many aspects about the realm that we live in that upon observation one could conclude that perhaps we live on a globe, as has been done over the centuries. But upon deeper investigation, investigation done by actual science…..that is……observing, testing, and then repeating…..that anyone reading here can do themselves……..whereas no one here reading can rise up high enough to see the shape of the earth for themselves or fly to another planet….the evidence that this earth is a globe quickly falls apart…..and not in just a few aspects, but in an overwhelming multitude of ways.

      Every single, so called “rebuttal” here of the flat earth theory is so elementary, as they always are if you have actually spent some time to consider an alternative viewpoint, that it should be embarrassing to those putting them forth. These “rebuttals” have literally been destroyed for years, countless times, by 1000s and 1000s of individuals in the FE community all over the world, even including world class pilots, surveyors, military gunners, engineers, etc. Is the shape of our earth proven? That isn’t the question. The question is, what does the preponderance of evidence show? And the answer to that, without a doubt, is that a globe, heliocentric model has almost no evidence supporting it whatsoever when compared to a flat earth model.

  12. Dear Sir or Madame of Winterwatch,

    Here is some information to help disprove the Flat Earth theory.




    Mark C. Zirzow, Jr.

      ………This accusation only began to circulate in the 19th century . The first to launch it successfully was the American writer Washington Irving . In his biography of Columbus, published in 1828, he dramatically narrated the Salamanca conference , in which Columbus presented his travel project to Spanish scholars chaired by Hernando de Talavera, archbishop of Granada.

      According to Irving, Hispanic scholars claimed the authority of the Bible to oppose Columbus by saying that the Earth was not a sphere: “They argued that it is said in the Psalms that the heavens are spread out like leather , that is, like the covering of a tent, and they added that Saint Paul compares the heavens to a tabernacle, from which they inferred that it should be flat. Columbus, who was sincerely Christian, feared being accused not of error, but of heterodoxy ….. (Spanish)

  13. The whole ‘flat earth’ debate is precisely why Heidegger is the thinker for the 21st Century! Phenomenology is the primordial science! What we call ‘the Earth’ for Heidegger was the ‘region of phenomenality!’ The Earth is an ungrounded abyss where it clashes with Sky. The Earth organizes and localizes the beings within it. The world worlds through the Earth and Sky! The Earth is contained in the Fourfold of Earth, Sky, Mortals, & Divinities!

    If all 24 time-zones converge at both the North and South Poles, what time is it at each?

    “We dwell in the ‘between’ of the upward pull of the Sky and the downward pull of the Earth”- Heidegger

    • Ed,

      First a great post! I am a little confused, but not knit picky, on this one sentence:

      “The world worlds through the Earth and Sky!”

      Unfortunately, I did not quite understand this statement; however, I am not at all being condescending. I have already let RW and BGNZ know that I am horrible when I try to write into WW using a tablet with a “self suggest mode”. So please know that I am humble and simply wish to understand the statement. It is probably just me.

      Moving on…

      You are one of my friends here that appreciates physical culture (weight lifting and strength training), so I wished to ask you (specific) how you feel about Mr. Brooks Kubik?

      In my case, I moved out of a very lax body weight quarter (first quarter of the year and I know I should have had better discipline) and into pushing iron again (as I normally do for the rest of my year). Yet, RW and the posting of the Ms. Austin Fitts interviews motivated me to sell all of my Iron Master equipment and switch to USA made gear. There was a little bit of a conundrum in sourcing certain items, but it has all been falling into place.

      In doing so, I am currently using a Power Block, adjustable set of dumbbells (I have owned them before, but they were made in China; these are US made). This move motivated me to seek out new dumbbell inspirations and I rediscovered Mr. Kubik (I had the Heavy Partials book for years now). Overall (even though he is just updating old Bob Hoffman / York Barbell ideas), I have been very happy with the results. Naturally, I thought of you in the last couple of weeks; however, I have not been on WW consistently and we seemed to have missed one another when I am around.

      Now I am not trying to sell a single thing, and I receive ZERO benefit if you check Mr. Kubik out (which is why there is no link). Should you decide to do so, I think you will enjoy his blog and some of his work; however, I am simply mentioning the idea (only a, humble, idea) as something you might enjoy.

      Please be well.


      • SC,

        Don’t know what you’ve read of Heidegger, if anything. I see ‘the Earth’ as Heidegger would view it, not so much as a noun, but as a verb! And not through the science of astronomy, but the science of phenomenology!

        Read his ‘Origin of the Work of Art!’ Here:

        Great video on Arthur Jones! He truly understood the human body at a different level. One of my first gyms I trained at when I was 15 was a ‘Nautilus Plus.’

        • Ed,

          Great to see you here and many thanks. Heidegger was someone I did a little study of (quite literally) decades ago. So, yes sir I could use a “brush up” on the work. Many thanks for the link; I will check it out this week (currently listening to a recommendation from RW, as I type to you, so this message is fine, but anything else and my attention would be too split — I will get to the link this week — looking forward to Origins…)

          I thought you might enjoy the Mr. Jones interview. Many people have seen the Letterman segment, but this one seemed new to me. If I ever have a larger space to work with, I would buy a whole set of vintage Med X equipment (I believe it was 12 machines in total and was his final line that he personally designed). I do know of a place in upstate NY that has these sets and keeps them in prime condition. One can dream.

          How is your gym these days? Are people being a little more relaxed or is it still a lot of masking and concern (I do recall one of your earlier posts along this line)? Hopefully everyone is relaxing a little bit more.

          For me, I started with a Weider plastic and sand set (my bars were hollow – it was a pretty cheap set). Then, the minute I turned 18 and could sign a credit form (what a goof I was), I ran over to the local Jack LaLane / Ballys and signed up for a lifetime membership (so young). Well that thing took me forever to pay off, but thankfully it had a resale clause, so about 6 years later I sold it to a coworker since I was in a different neighborhood and I could no longer effectively use it.

          At that point, I belonged to a 24 hour hole in the wall and also sometimes stopped off at the first Crunch (day passes) in the entire nation. Good times. Now as you know, I work out at home (just easier with work and family schedules — no commute = ).

          Last thing (no rush on any of this) have you been able to get out into the mountains as of late? I would imagine it may be a little warmer out near you, but still very pleasant for camping.

          We actually have had more than two weeks of spring this year…quite pleasant indeed.

          Please be well.

          All my best,

          • SC,

            My gym gives people the option of training without a mask, yet 90% of the brainwashed cretins still wear them. I love laughing at the individuals on the stationaries or treadmills doing their cardio with their masks on- complete fools!

            I train M-Sat at 4am and virtually have the gym to myself. There are usually about 4 or 5 people, but I can handle that. If it’s 9am or 4 or 5pm- no thanks! Too many sheep!

            One other follow up on Heidegger! I’ve read him for 25 years and only recently have I felt that I’m coming to understand him sufficiently. I believe he once famously said to put down his ‘Being and Time’ and study Aristotle for 10 years, especially his ‘Physics!’ Heidegger does not translate well into English like, say Nietzsche does. Which is why I have my ‘Blackwell Heidegger Dictionary’ at all times when I’m reading on or about Heidegger.

            In many ways, Heidegger was like Luther, in that he created his own language, so he requires a lot of patience and time consuming resolve and philology is indispensable for understanding him.

            When you get a chance with your busy schedule, watch the 2010 documentary(linked below)on and about Heidegger. It’s well done! Heidegger’s ‘philosophy’ is NOT to be found in the almost obscure and high falutin abstractions of his language and ideas, but it is to be found in growing a garden or doing some wood work.

            As far as the mountains go, yes indeed! I’m going to buy a used truck here in the next month, some brand new camping gear, and then it’s on! The snow is starting to melt of these wonderful Wasatch mountains of Utah and the peaks are calling! Thanks for asking!

            Take care!


            • Ed,

              First thank you very much; I will view the text and the video.

              Okay, now I am a little embarrassed (but I did promise to be honest). Although I do not have this exact text, I own a series of audio books on Kant, Espinoza, Heidegger and others which are along this line:


              I have owned them for at least a decade and a half or more; however, this is what I would have meant by having done a little study on Heidegger. This is no where near what you are speaking of or the level of focus you have vested into your studies. Now this IN NO WAY means that I will not follow-up and apply myself in a solid investigation. What it means is that I have read an excellent reply (above this reply) and I wanted to be clear of my background and fess up to the level.

              So you have given me a direction for a road and I will begin a little walking…pretty straight forward. Again, many thanks!

              As for the gym, I completely get it. Before we left Manhattan, I was the same way (4 AM / 4:30 AM) in terms of arrival. Sometimes it was just me and one or two “exotic” dancers who had ended their shift and wanted to get a work out in so that they avoided the drugs and could get some sleep after running / lifiting (I kid you not).

              Toward the end (in 2002) it was normally me and Mrs. Simple at a different gym (closer to home) with our friend who ran the the morning shift (big fella who was also a trainer) for about an hour to an hour and a half. It was like owning a gym for ourselves. So I do get it. Ironically enough many gyms in your nation’s Capitol do not open until 5 or even 6 AM (4 would be a rarer find — maybe it is a southern thing, I do not know).

              On the truck, I will keep a very good thought for you that you come across the right vehicle and all goes excessively well.

              Gotta run…still a few thing to do before closing out the work day.


              P.S. Made some good purchases as of late, but the one I was happiest with (which is not too costly) was this:


              This is in no way me bragging or any of that nonsense; it is thinking of an item that you may someday see a good reason to acquire (maybe not now, but some time in the future).

              Since it can be packed with a few plates and take up little room, you could even wake up in the mountains and just loosen up with a quick set of swings (as you know good for loosening from the top of the spine down, especially if you feel the changes in your joints from ground temperature changes over the course of sleep). Also if you get blizzard conditions and really cannot get over to the gym, it could make for a nice little option (swing, goblet squat, push up, rinse, repeat).

              The other benefit for me (aside from fabrication in Ohio) is that I can load heavier than I could with the adjustable Iron Master versions, which topped out at 80lbs. So now I can get into three digit swinging, which would be new territory for me (when I had fixed Russian made ones, I topped out at about 62, based on the Pood calculation to pounds).

              Please be well.


              • I don’t see it as bragging! You and I simply share a passion about getting a good work out- especially with weight resistance! Before I started weight training at age 13, I still played a lot of basketball with friends and it would get intense at times! Hard fouls, all-out effort, all of us drenched in sweat, laser focused, and ready to play until dinner!

                And I would remember walking home many times and thinking, “God I feel good!” I established an early understanding of how ‘breaking a sweat’ cleared my head, made me more confident, and made me feel on fire and alive with the energy of life.

                I use to work with a former tennis pro named John Bennett who was Robert Redford’s personal tennis coach. Redford would give him a key to his wealthy Sundance, Utah home and call him ahead of time to come meet him for a lesson the next day or so. Redford, now 84, always said he feared the day where he could no longer be ‘physical!’ Training in the morning is 100x better than relying on an overpriced Starbuck’s Mocha Latte!

                So much is about conquering yourself in battle! When on the early mornings, I’m either: 1-waking up, dragging, and feeling like shit, 2- have had little-to-no sleep at all!, 3- Am catching-up because I’ve been late and/or rushed for time, 4- Completely unmotivated to exert any physical effort!….

                It is when I train on these days that I get the most feedback! Then pile 4 or 5 of these days in a row. Are you still going to get up and work-out?

                ‘Tis the magic line Homer casts upon Achilles?….”Anger now be your song immortal one!”

                • Ed,

                  “You and I simply share a passion about getting a good work out- especially with weight resistance!”

                  Absolutely and (just speaking for myself here) I am also extremely happy that you have found this physical expression in your life (literally you, Ed), because I know how precious that feeling is every day after one has moved a heavy object over a period of time, cleared out the cob webs and is rewarded with such beautiful peace / clarity.

                  After I am done with each session, I am truly, very much in a place of peace. If or when I miss a day, I am really thrown off and find myself just not feeling too right. I can be crabby (lack of a better word) and argumentative.

                  Yet, give me one week to push iron around and play on the Versa Climber and you will have the nicest, kindest, and most thoughtful version of Simple Citizen. A guy who would never harm a fly and who can handle the events in our world with peace and good intentions.

                  So to hear about your success and happiness, in turn makes me very happy. Pretty simple stuff (pun intended)…

                  On Mr. Redford:

                  First, what a great story. Many thanks for putting up here for me to read.

                  Second, the reason I use a Versa Climber for cardio sessions is as a direct result of his buddy, Mr. Paul Newman (I kid you not).

                  Mr. Newman and his lady acquired a Versa Climber in the 80s and, although I am not sure about Ms. Woodward, he (evidently) used it up until his transition. I figured if it was good for him and helped him stay looking great throughout his older years, then I should give it a shot; never regretted that decision for a moment, as I love using this tool.

                  Now there are days when I have a really good workout and I get off the machine, walk around and say to all the family members:

                  “I must break you!” I like to call it Rocky IV affliction.

                  However, I do not think this particular situation can be blamed on the machine in this case. I think the issue may actually be all my own. Mrs. and Miss Simple just tell me to go away. The cat says, “Yeah, I would like to see you try. Go for it!”, which is part of his Rocky V affliction, but that is another story, for another time.

                  Great to speak with you. Please be well. Good thoughts and prayers being sent your way from over here.


            • Ed,

              Thank you for the video! I thoroughly enjoyed it.

              I guess now you might want me to design and build an EMP so that perhaps we can return humanity to its higher callings and reduce the technological vacuum that seems to be consuming many people’s lives (kidding of course).

              I will show the video to the whole Simple Family over the coming weekend. It is well worth investigation and consideration.

              Again, thank you.

              All my best,

  14. SC, I’ll also point to a resource here for everyone that may be helpful as well: whatever else may be on refuteit, their flat earth articles and the ones exposing the nephilim hybrid false doctrines are good at least.

    Also, part of the problem with false doctrines like flat earth is that it depends on falsified reading of Bible texts, by forcing an “all literal” reading, which ignores all symbolism, all poetic phrases and all metaphors etc.(this is equally as bad as it’s opposite, reading all the text as metaphor with nothing literal., which is also used, such as in new age, new thought etc. cults.) usually this false interpretation method is coupled with pushing the KJV as the only valid Bible, this is done exactly because the KJV’s archaic english is not undersood well by modern english speakers, and makes it easier to twist or read a false interpretation into certain words & phrases, such as reading “circle of the earth” as if it literally means something flat, which it doesn’t if one actually takes the time to read the text properly, its a poetic ilustration, not a literal descriptor of a disc-like world.

    As Mr. Winter & others here say, flat earth is indeed a psy-op, first used to take digs at Christianity which opposed gnosticism way back, and now tied into “conspriacy” to do the exact same discrediting by association thing, likely because the previously used old line about aliens/little green/grey men is becoming less useful as the cabal/the “they” push the bogus concept of “aliens” as legitimate in the mainstream, so switching to another discrediting stereotype was needed to avoid their psy-ops garbage crashing into itself, for when they decided to demonize “conspiracy theorists”.

  15. Disappointing article given the quality of the site. Almost ALL ancient cosmologies share a flat stationary earth placed at the centre of the universe.(Geocentrism) The spinning ball fantasy is a Jesuit deception brought in over the last 400 to 500 years.It obviously is a necessary deception which dovetails with the modern day house of cards of “Science”, evolution and the dialectical materialism of the occult/marx.(see comment from Pseudonym) No surprise then to learn that the more recent Big bang theory/absurdity was proposed by another Catholic priest. Now guess what institution owns the most telescopes on this Plane ? The widely accepted idea that we are on a spinning ball flying through space is simple proof that there are no limits to what lies the sheeple can be led to believe through casuistry / cunning. The current deceptions are more proof that the father of lies is mounting his final magic show. Some great comments.

  16. derekjohnfelton,

    Good points! Throw in Darwinian evolution, Freudian psychology, and Quantum physics as well! Look at the ridiculousness of, let’s say, the CERN Particle Accelerator; the millions of dollars that have been spent over the years to ‘unlock the secrets of matter!’

    When I was younger and was reading a lot on Quantum Theory and the Big Bang theory, I read Fritjof Capra’s ‘The Tao of Physics.’ This book really ignited a lot of skepticism in me and caused me to rethink the overall approach and questions that these physicists were asking in the first place. I’ve found now that much of the challenge is UNLEARNING what I have been taught and then filling in those gaps and reconstructing ‘the/my world’ if you will!

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