Rule by Discordians to Destroy Civilization


Michael Shellenberger has a substack piece out parsing the role of what I call radical red Vanguard discordians in defending and financing open air drugs and homeless encampments in San Francisco. His book, “San Fransicko,” describes why discordians create and defend what European researchers call “open drug scenes,” which are places in cities where drug dealers and buyers meet and where many addicts live in tents. Discordians call these scenes “homeless encampments” and not only defend them but encouraged their growth.

Editor takeaway on words used in the piece: Referring to the woke hordes as “progressives” is misleading. There is nothing even faintly resembling progress about their policies nor politics. They are fundamentalist discordians and often are de facto satanists practicing inversion.

Where this article gets revealing is when it quotes insiders in terms of the motives for Free Crime Zone Policies, defunding police, massive early releases of career felons, human trafficking (via open borders) and coddling of drug-addled street zombies.

The latest abuse being hurled on the community at large is organized, criminal gang, smash-and-grab larceny of retailers. Insurance rates will skyrocket or not be available. Any on-the-fence businesses already in trouble from the scamdemic will be cut off and liquidated or closed.

These are all issues that appeal to the revolutionary Vanguard urge (aka the Holy Crusade of Righteousness) but are never popular with the people that they’re supposedly designed to help. The actual existing needs of homeless poor, such as drug recovery and mental illness treatment, are barely addressed. Instead, they are encouraged by sinister forces. Over two-thirds living on the streets have disabilities, mental illness or addiction.

This is exploitation and the use and abuse of afflicted people to achieve sinister ends. It is discordian Helter Skelter. It’s a classic high-level destabilization technique used to topple countries in purple revolutions. The true proof of discordian exploitation are the death outcomes.

The insider source continues on: “Open drug scenes look like natural disasters, but they are the result of specific city policies. These policies including giving money, food, and drug paraphernalia to addicts to support their addiction. But even if progressives didn’t give people those things, many addicts would still live in open drug scenes. As such, the main reason “homelessness” is so much worse in progressive West Coast cities is because progressives hotly oppose efforts by cities to close the open drug scenes and move addicts into shelters and rehab.” (editor note: not progressives and liberals- Red Vanguard discordians.)

San Francisco’s Woke Bust

The insider: “People come here because they think they can. It’s bullshit that ‘Only 30 percent [of homeless] are from out of town.’ At least 20,000 homeless people come through town every year. Talk to the people on the street. There’s no way 70 percent of the homeless are from here. I would guess it’s fewer than 50 percent. Ask them the name of their high school and they guess, ‘Washington? The one around the corner?’ But you can’t even talk about that without being called a fascist.”

Jennifer Friedenbach

Shellenberger: “The most influential homeless advocate in San Francisco, and perhaps the United States as a whole, is the head of the San Francisco Coalition on Homelessness, Jennifer Friedenbach. Over the last three decades, Friedenbach has taken control over San Francisco’s homelessness budget and other policies. She blocks the closure of open drug scenes, calls people who disagree with her fascists and racists, and organizes protests at the homes of politicians.

He explains how this hack operates: Friedenbach controls how San Francisco spends its astonishing $850 million annual budget.

“Jenny built her power base by becoming a master of the budget’s ‘add back’ process,” said the San Francisco insider. “The night before the budget is announced, it gets reviewed by the Board of Supervisors, but they’re trying to get out of there by midnight, and that’s when this ‘community asks.’ The board goes and trims stuff out of the mayor’s budget and does ‘add backs’ of money for struggling nonprofits. Jenny has mastered that process. And so if you’re a nonprofit executive director, and you want money in the add back process, which everyone does, you have to go through Jenny.”

This insider said that Friedenbach also operates behind the scenes.

“She controls fake front groups like the Homeless Service Providers’ Coalition and the Justice Budget Coalition,” said the insider. Friedenbach demonizes the people who stand up to her. “They shut down the discussion,” the insider said. “Everybody is just like, ‘Police bad. Public health good.’ It’s Animal Farm.”

Typical of Friendbach is her opposition to a plan by Sup. Rafael Mandelman, to guarantee that anyone sleeping on the sidewalks or the parks or in buses or anywhere else can have a shelter with functioning toilets and showers – on demand.

The issue is obvious. Permanent housing is expensive and requires behavioral compliance with tenant rules. Otherwise, permanent housing quickly becomes dangerous unlivable cesspools. Instead of using over a third of funds for putting a roof and shelter over the homeless’ heads, it’s for eviction defense.

The article really didn’t address who is behind Friedenbach, but here the insider gets to the bottom line.

“Why do they do it? Radical anti-system ideology. There’s a San Francisco Coalition on Homelessness hat which says, ‘Coalition on Homelessness: On The Frontlines of Class Warfare,’” said the insider. “They feel like they’re fighting class warfare.”

Most revealing of all: A clinical psychologist who for two decades ran programs for homeless veterans at the San Francisco Veterans Administration Medical Center provided this email:

“I agree with all you say about the ‘homeless’ people who are actually mislabeled mentally ill and drug addicts,” wrote Dr. Mark Zaslav. “I like your comparison of the ‘ideology’ of people who “advocate” for the homeless to a religion gone haywire. But I wanted, as a psychologist, to add another point for your consideration. This is the fact that this leftwing religion is based on split-off hatred and contempt for civilization itself.  When I attended substance abuse conferences in San Francisco run by community leaders, it became clear to me that these people had no understanding of mental health disorders like addiction – they regarded ‘homeless’ addicts as heroes of some kind.  

“Thus, each drug addict defecating on the streets in the Tenderloin was a massive middle finger to some imagined white male with a briefcase. The premise of your solutions, which make so much sense, assume that adherents to the now reigning ideology want things solved. They do not. They want people inconvenienced by addicts.

“These people are angry and full of hate. They have tapped into a form of blindness among the voters of places like San Francisco or California itself – these are angry people endlessly telling themselves they are compassionate while projecting their hatred toward the ‘bourgeoise.’ I am afraid this does not end well.”

Nesta Webster described the leveling to the lowest primitive denominator in her book War on Civilization.

“Moral aspiration is all that separates man from the brute. Destroy civilization in its entirety and the human race sinks to the level of the jungle in which the only law is the strong over the weak, the only incentive struggle for material needs.”

We add that the operative Friedenbach clearly has never cleaned a café bathroom. Her condescension for those who do is revolting. She could care less about the working poor in these environments. Ignoring quality of life crimes also impacts the working class poor more than the rich and they have no voice under the regime of the hyper-tolerant Red Vanguard discordians.

Seattle is Dying: Drug-Addled Street People Occupy Cities of the Left Coast

Plutocrat Donors Lead the Campaign to Legalize Crimes

24 Comments on Rule by Discordians to Destroy Civilization

    • I like Mag, he has good intentions and questions everything. The whole everyone is a tranny gets old, but his vids on the Convid scam are good.

      • I think he’s hilarious and love his accent/delivery, just not sure EVERY hollywood ghoul is a tranny. BAM!! LOL

    • I suspect that Mag got spooked by some sweet piece of trim that turned out to have a third leg, and now the poor guy is afraid to date anyone. On any subject save female impersonators, his judgement is sound and his insights often brilliant. I have learned a lot from the guy.

  1. Yes all part of ((their)) plan and ((Friedenbach)) their well paid useful idiot. The last time I was in SF I vowed to NEVER return it was frightening after dark and zero white people except for the homeless. SF must be doing something because if I were homeless I would be walking south instead of setting up my tent in the coldest city. Destruction of cities has been going on forever it appears this is just another phase…E.Michael Jones explains it very well, I believe the book he wrote on the subject is “Culture Wars”

  2. Since 9/11, and for sure post 2008 Financial Coup/Internet Boom, there has been something I have witnessed firsthand from all levels of class, in multiple states. It isn’t really ‘new’ what I’m disclosing, I don’t think, in the sense that none of the individual components is a novel disclosure of any kind, but I still don’t think it has really shook people, really ‘hit’ them, what type of transformation has already taken place post 9/11. It doesn’t help, too, that the media, even in independent media, is sort of using this eschatological, ‘futuristic’ lexicon where ‘something is always about to happen,’ where ‘things will get worse before they get better,’ and ‘whatever it is, it is coming.’ The idea that ‘it’ is here never really strikes people, and it is a bizarre phenomenon to see what in depth psychology is referred to as ‘disavowal’ and/or just plain denial from them when it is brought up. In other words, it is comforting to think this terrible future is always ‘coming,’ but not here, in the present.

    Going back to my point about what i’ve seen take place. The transformation of the ‘National Security State’ post 9/11, the private incentivizing of data collection, bloating the private security/logistics industry, fusion centers, has already been mentioned as paralleling a ‘Phoenix Operation’ in the US by the likes of Doug Valentine. It got its lift from Bush, and it’s hugest boost from Obama, and its Chaos, justification to go ape shit, from Trump, in laymens terms (without all of the real decision making that took place, beyond those personalities). That private security has done nothing but expand its power, and lie, lie, and lie some more about what it has used itself for. It was supposed to be for ‘National Security’ against immanent terror threats- serious shit, the most serious shit, which requires a burden of proof before you harass, stalk, spy on someone over it- just like with going after some murderous psychopath. You can’t just decide on a whim to kick down peoples doors- but after all of that, the cyber opened the door to them doing that, and they just continually lied and abused it for personal gain, if even that. Of course, once anyone with any spine at all found out, they spoke up, and then comes the endless band-aiding of this ethical abyss. They keep hiding one thing, then doing worse, then doubling down, spiraling out. And during this masturbatory destruction process, which has nothing to do with National Security whatsoever, they’ve needed patsies, people to blame things on- and who better than a bunch of destitute, often felonious, drug-addicted, homeless people? That’s an easy straw-man effigy for the public to hate.

    So what they do- as you can see with groups like ‘Antifa’ and similar proxy black-bloc garbage- is they go around finding these vulnerable adults, many of whom are already felons, like I said- even better if they’ve been turned informant, so there’s already a liaison between Red Squad Law Enforcement, these Chaos-Causing Intelligence Divisions inside the police- the kind who have those photo ops putting a random ‘white sheet over a black guys head’ just in time for the new riot. Those guys, the homeless, often have disability, but may work some, etc- and so these Nonprofits/Special Interests go around and ‘recruit them,’ target them, specifically- the handicapped, the homeless, the addicted. It may be for an issue- say ‘raising the minimum wage.’ They’ll go around, as ‘activists,’ many of them not Millennials/Zoomers either- older like the woman you show here, Boomers and Xers- and easily brainwash them into joining these ‘paid protests.’ They get paid. That’s why its so easy to recruit homeless as these recalcitrant activists. Many of them still have problems, they need help, could improve their lives if they right things were set up- but instead is this bribe set up for them to protest. In addition, they have these Communist, racist newspapers given to them, for free- the ones I’d seen specifically came from Brazil (funny, too, because many of the troll farm agitators online have been traces to Brazil, and Turkey- could still be US-connected, but they’re there for whatever reason). Then they’re encourage, in these ‘Schools that teach you how to protest’- many in larger cities, a lot in Chicago, to speak up for newspapers, etc during events- entire courses on ‘how to’ basically become an agitator, protestor. Keep in mind, I’m talking about, in many cases, seriously challenged people that shouldn’t be bothered with this shit. One specific case I’d seen, they’d recruited this guy who was on all kinds of medication, disability, and who was born with birth defects because of his mother smoking crack-cocaine while pregnant. He’d suffered serious learning disabilities from this. Yet that did not impede these groups, ethically, from coercing this demographic from joining up. And they’ll do it because, again, many of them are still addicted to opioids or crack, so if they get paid for the protest- sure they’ll go say whatever. Never mind the fact that it’s just another piece adding to more disingenuous culture, inauthentic activism, fake/contrived belief, based on bribes and not real feeling or conviction.

    You’d think, with these ‘Protest Schools’- like those in Chicago, etc- there’d be investigations into the ethics of who they are targeting, recruiting. And that goes for either political aisle. But when you are seeing these ridiculous paramilitary looking, trashy protesters, on the right or left, laced in with private security and criminal activity, alongside recent college graduates in sociology and anthropology- that’s what it is. You’ve got a cocktail of post 9/11 private security/intelligence, a splash of organized crime, astroturf, plausible deniability being shucked off on the homeless and mentally ill, and that ‘progressive’ or ‘educated’ glossy veneer with the couple of students and/or teachers that will hang around the bunch.

    • We’ve got a lot of predictive dystopian programming to wade through. And there is more disavowal about what the telemetry of truth, justice, and liberty is telling than you can shake a stick at. The blunt incurious NPR dopers are everywhere, helpless against the high voltage propaganda matrix. In Sicilian, the fauchi is the instrument of the sickle as well as the name of one who makes or uses it. For another entry about a fauchi being a slime mold I couldn’t find any confirmation. Several for sickle though. I see a use for this meme to make the message believable, that we are targets in a unilateral war, and help make sense for people likely to take the fable of Christ and Satan literally. Can it still be called war if the targets are unaware of it being so?

      Breaking the legs of our common languages, and especially the languages of culture make for unendingly dense discursives in gobbledygook. I’m shocked. Saw it coming but found too many interesting ways to postpone reckoning with the need to find and understand critical levels of truth in a world that made fables out of it; because the language of culture is a product of much in impossibly long spans of time, and may only be found out through much effort and focused concentrations of study and tenacious reasoning, and especial observance when divergent cultural factions collide. Otherwise culture remains mostly buried like the iceberg, and is mostly inaccessible for most people. By culture I mean something much deeper than what is normally fobbed off as such. It’s more like an operators manual for negotiating anything, and in a low context culture the bulk of it’s needed information and background is open ended and incomplete like some species of instinct, requiring more information and complexity to actually instruct us on how to conduct negotiations. The newly hatched bird has the instinctive push to sing but must hear the song from it’s parents in order to get it right. Leaving the porch light on for an expected guest is closer to this idea than going to music concerts. But, when war is afoot, it usually means that culture has broken down or was just inadequate in the first place. But how does one fix something that is not generally known to exist. (see Edward T. Hall, Beyond Culture for more)

      Well thought versions of culture probably don’t exist. They develop as an instinctual base. They are target one for collectivistic discordians.

      I like your observation of the homeless being used as a strawman effigy for people to hate. I would add that the likelyhood that homelessness itself is not already erradicated, because they serve to scare everyone into walking the expected line.


  3. The California ‘homeless’ crisis is heavily funded from the top of the one party state, with localities that don’t go along with the confiscation of hotels for warehousing homeless in their rooms under the ‘homekey’ scam heavily leaned on by the California attorney general.

    If you play the game as a civic official you will rise in the party ranks but if you resist you will get whacked.

    The result is lots of virtue signaling suburbanites going along with the status quo thinking they are doing the right thing, being compassionate etc, with the chimera of ‘a roof over every head’, the ‘housing first’ fantasy in one of the world’s most expensive real estate markets dangled a the holy grail.

    STEPS, ‘housing first’s predecessor makes perfect sense in the current opioid fueled crisis but you will be accused of ‘criminalizing homelessness’ if you make these heretical remarks in public by ‘non profits’ who know there are oceans of cash accessible to them if they play by the autocratic state rules. (Friedenbach’ Coalition for the Homeless’ is politically very powerful).

    The big urban cities are being theatrically destroyed as a major media event but what is happening in smaller California cities who can’t take the hit to retail, tourism etc is worse and currently under reported with huge transient RV armadas parking in industrial areas and spilling out into residential areas, with attendant garbage, drug dealing and crime.

    Meanwhile the California emperorGavin ‘Newsom’ Getty just went to Mexico for Thanksgiving, spending what would have been his entire annual salary at a luxury resort. Most of the Fentanyl pouring into California is brewed in Mexico with dealing controlled by Hondurans in San Francisco….I wonder who paid for Gavin’s vacation….?

  4. You cant build back better until you break what you’ve got.

    Better = Surveillance Capitalism, which in turn facilitates the control of Means of Production, and Means of Consumption.

    • The prevailing national & world religion is Assininity & only Assinites are on the ballot at ‘election’ time thanks to many ((media)) molded /CIA drugged/ perversely sexualized/ musically hypnotized boomers & many of their progeny. But not all will fall for it.

  5. This slow destruction of society, happening on all fronts brings to mind the Cloward Piven strategy working it’s way out over fifty some odd years with alot of Saul Alinsky tactics thrown in along the way. It has been intentional and planned, growing in sophistication.

    Not directly related but very interesting documentary on 2010 Stuxnet virus and cyberwarfare generally. Alot of propaganda but still worth it.

  6. I gotta admit- I sorta like that rising arc of drug overdoses depicted in the chart above.
    Kind of a self-solving problem. I know, I know … I’m a monster 🙂 I encourage any and
    all normie do-gooders and ‘feel sorry’ types to experience more with the ‘homeless’ or
    just deal with or interact with them more. I promise you’ll come around. Familiarity …

    • Homelessness is just another pejorative classification. Many are new to this tragic predicament and never thought that they too might eventually become houseless. I say houseless because home is an idea of preferred living conditions. But the label of homeless is just one more double entendre of a mere statement of fact, and a weapon that carries the presumption of illegality, addiction, mental illness, and low status. Like any sort of malady, the causal tributaries are sometimes many and cannot be sorted into the single-cause canard. Many have been damaged by betrayal in a demented culture. This culture is enforced by Institutional Psychiatry that serves and protects society from a critical look at it’s true functioning, by of course blaming the troubled individual, ascribing them to a surreptitious condemnation, and justifying the violence of a troubled social milieu that can hardly be extricated from. The greater society enjoys a high degree of immunity from any responsibility for harming the individual because part of it’s sickness is due to a rampant collective superiority complex.

      Mental illness is a term that implies sequestration. The lone defenseless unsheltered one is often dismayed by the disparity between inadequate advocacy and powerful monolithic institutions of public health.

      The more vulgarity becomes the central feature of a nation, the more we get heartless scapegoating like your post, Rommel.


      • Yeah, yeah, yeah …Cry me a river !! Go camp out with the homeless already.
        Live, experience, commiserate … walk in “their shoes” my brother ! Solidarity.
        Meanwhile, I’m happy behind the bulldozer as in the scene from “They Live”.
        Here’s a little fodder for your peace pipe. Most drunks and drug addicts, just
        like the so labelled ‘homeless’ are poor in CHARACTER, not in money or
        ‘home(s)’. That’s WHY they are poor in the latter. As Jack Lord used to say
        in ‘Hawaii Five-0′ > “Book ’em Dano”. I do have SOME empathy for women
        and kids out of the foster care system. There are legit issues. But spare me
        all the rest and the academic analysis. Lots of sociologists out there 🙂 I’ve
        heard many of their endless tales of woe and circumstance. PLENTY. Few
        regale so compellingly with their stories like the “unfortunate” homeless.
        Homeless drunks, homeless druggies, homeless shoplifters, bike thieves,
        homeless car vandals, construction site copper robbers, et al. Meanwhile
        the rest of us just deal with it. Sans story

        • I think we can agree that it’s the bad character we hate. It’s the theft, the cheating, the lying. Some make it a point to not outright steal, but do the pack-rat thing. One stole a new memory chip and left a watch that was worth about the same, in her mind. It’s their way of lessening the sting of conscience. This is the stage when it’s still possible for them to learn that it isn’t okay. However, if the lack of adequate housing is the problem, the only remedy is housing. After that, homelessness is irrelevant to the problem of piracy.

          • The bad actions are what is hated. Character can be rehabilitated, though I actually support sequestration for people in the throes of addiction. I view sequestration as mercy in such a situation, and enablement as wrath. Sequestration is not always a bad thing and there are good reasons for it. People act like it’s some intentionally cruel practice when it can be merciful. You throw the criminals in jail because it’s cruel to the surrounding law abiding folks if you don’t. You don’t do it to be cruel to the criminal. California has proven that enabling doesn’t help people in this situation. Give every homeless person a house and their underlying problems won’t go away. Their problems were likely present before these people were homeless. Not that the homeless have a monopoly on the character deficit problem. Over 70% of “homeowners” don’t really own their home. Many of these people are materialistic consumer bots who’ll bag on the homeless for fun while in reality they are incapable of withstanding 2 or 3 missed paychecks. Nearly homeless people making fun of homeless people who actually have a higher net worth than them? Only in a world where you back the money by something worth less than nothing…

            • Pretty good comment overall. I agree of course about the
              ‘sequestration’ where they can be provided for, as well as
              required to engage in useful activities and programs. I’d
              like to sum with this: Those that need to be governed
              need to be governed and should be. Those that don’t
              need to be governed don’t need to and should not be.
              The (chronic) homeless NEED TO BE GOVERNED.

  7. Yes, to further parse our terms, bad actions better denotes the problem than bad character because character can be rehabilitated, perhaps either by change from within or without; from corrections in every relevant social sphere like philosophy, psychology, sociology, commonly shared culture, and most importantly within the self, by the self, of our subject.

    However, I would take issue with the idea of addiction being addressed by sequestration. No insult intended, but I think you’ve employed a euphemism for incarceration. You made it clear that it isn’t punishment we should be after, but protection for the society that has been offended against. Punishment is an archaic idea that never worked in the sense of causing a change of heart in the punished. But why should addiction, described only in terms of bad action, deserve incarceration??

    When I used the term sequestration above, I meant a kind of isolation on the so called free side of the prison wall. One that is made of rejection based on assumption and prejudice, not on any observable bad action. Opinion and law allows for including drug use as a bad action, but in a realm of extralegal conscience and sensibility, it’s not to the point of being sufficient cause to interrupt their liberty. Using needles for a fix may be grotesque to us but the harm is self inflicted, and though we may want to reach out to them, it really is beyond our purview with respect to their rights and liberty to do so.

    • The idea of sequestration for offending addicts is to change the environment and remove the opportunity to obtain and use substances. It is also to protect the public which IS BEING HARMED. It doesn’t have to be harsh incarceration but it is definitely controlled.

      The crime of allowing or ignoring open air public drug markets such as seen in San Fran is nothing but discordian and evil.

      • A while back there was some vandalism to some park benches in a park in the corporate city that I live in. One of four benches that surrounded a rose arbor was destroyed. The cities answer to the problem was to pull out all the benches there. That strategy was spread throughout the city to the point were there are few benches left to enjoy. I and another, who had serious difficulty even walking, addressed the problem with reps from the city. My input was to ask them not to punish everyone for the offense, but instead to enforce the law against the perpetrator, and no-one else. The meeting was just a empty ritual of addressing grievances. It’s the same deal with San Francisco. Does anyone here think that I condone open air public drug markets. I don’t condone that any more than I condone the vandalism of park benches. We should deal with evil discordian tactics on a case by case basis.

        I still contend that sequestration is a euphemism for incarceration and is not made less so by framing it as an idea. The seeming milder version of separating “offending addicts” from opportunities to use, is nothing less than a Trojan Horse. The unacknowledged force of it, hides that it’s true face is tyranny. Who is making the claim, what is the crime, and who is the injured party? Not as a concept that conflates addiction with doing it in the street. As an idea, the only way for it to work, is for consent to be acquired from the so called offending addict. I can imagine someone who wants to get off the drugs being vary glad to cooperate with a program to do that.

        • Removing benches aka destroying civilization is a classic discordian response. I realize you aren’t coming at this as a discordian but as more a libertarian. But that doesn’t work when you are up against discordians who have weaponized this population. They will only take advantage of your good will.

          I would suggest viewing Seattle is Dying as it describes the programs utilized. Some street people do give their consent when they hit bottom and go into sequestered treatment.

          But there is a rule in policing- 50% of the crime is committed by 5%, and 80% by 20%. And vandalizing benches is a serious not minor crime in my book. Discordian run cities don’t prosecute these crimes. So the police- when funded and allowed to be professional know who the bad actors are. Enforcing crimes against livability is paramount. With your consent for treatment approach that is virtually impossible.

          I have first hand experience with this as I owned and eventually sold vintage apartment buildings (61 units) in a transitional neighborhood in Tacoma 20 years ago. Consumption of cheap fortified alcohol is also an issue besides drugs. Alcohol is heavily regulated and there was a clause in Washington State law that allows for what is called Alcohol Impact Areas (AIA) that removes these products. I was a leader in the movement to implement this. The positive impact on the neighborhoods was pronounced.

          At that time there was a strong livability NGO in the region. i have heard Tacoma has since lost whatever progress we made and has gone downhill. Fentanyl and meth is part of the equation now. And I assume discordians rule now- but am no longer paying attention.

          The livability lobby is very much about shelter and treatment. Housing only doesn’t work because without successful treatment the tenant can’t behave and follow normal tenancy rules. Coupled with anti-eviction statues you end up with dangerous housing cesspools.

          I successfully fought against this in my buildings and provided a safe environment. But at that time Tacoma had friendly landlord livability courts. Once discordians take over the courts the whole community becomes a nightmare. I could tell you stories in the early clean up years managing these populations that would blow your mind.

          And often the treatment must be sequestered and part of the sentencing to work. I have seen some pretty low life people cleaned up and salvaged through tough intervention. Several examples of this were interviewed in the Seattle documentary. Through personal involvement I am a hard core believer in this approach.

          So any libertarian leaning I once held ended with these Tacoma experiences. These are hard fought wars and the discordians will play you like a fiddle if you hold to your consent only views.

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