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The ‘Boeing 757’ That Magically Vaporized in Shanksville on 9/11


The mystery of Boeing 757 Flight 93 at Shanksville on 9/11 reminds me of my socks: They just keep disappearing. There must be a wormhole near my laundry basket that sucks socks into The Great Void. I’ve never been able to solve it.

But not everything disappeared at Shanksville. What was found? Clean and unscathed red bandanna believed to belong to “hijacker.”

And, of course, “hijacker” “Saeed Al Ghamdi’s” Saudi Arabia passport was located.

Passport photo from flight 93:

But as for the “Boeing 757 aircraft” in Shanksville; no signs of it. Of course, for somebody like “Bin Laden,” who could totally obliterate three sturdy tower blocks with two planes, and then manage to wipe out the accounts department in the world’s best-protected military headquarters with another, making a fourth huge aircraft completely vanish into a small hole in the ground should barely have presented a challenge. /sarc

What’s amazing about Shanksville is that USGS aerial images show a hole and trench there before the crash. Here is one taken in 1994. Whodathunk?

Here are more witnesses at Shanksville that got out of the bag. Coroner describes Flight 93 crash site- a hole of nothing.

Mayor is on the scene, sees no aircraft, no body parts.

First responder firefighter:

Pittsburgh field office FBI agent, who arrived on the Flight 93 crash scene. There were no signs of an aircraft or people, just hijacker passports and their paper notes.

This eyewitness describes something that was anything but a commerical aircraft. Yes, something did hit. A missile.

The following video is the recording of CeeCee Lyles calling her husband while allegedly aboard Flight 93 that crashed at Shanksville, Penn., on 9/11. She speaks in a canned-sounding voice, as if reading from a script. Listen closely to second 0:35 as she whispers, “It’s a frame.” RIP.

The next video is an interview with the husband of CeeCee Lyles. The last section is of interest, as he says he checked the number of the call and could see it was from her cell phone. He then correctly observed that a cell phone call from an airliner flying at high altitudes in 2001 is not possible.

The next video clip provides some background on cell-phone technology of aircraft flying at higher altitudes in the early 2000s, as well as “debunkers” from Popular Mechanics magazine. When I finally became curious and more inquisitive about 9/11, I watched these wizards in an absurd 2009 pseudo-History Channel (owned by Hearst/Disney) documentary and was fooled into thinking “nothing to see here, move along.” I hold special disdain for these criminals, as I went back to sleep for four more years afterward. It wasn’t until 2013 that I fully woke up to the truth about 9/11.

Furthermore, readers need to be aware that the “senior researcher” for Popular Mechanics in their highly publicized debunker articles and documentary was one Benjamin Chertoff. Incredibly, this “researcher” is the cousin of Department of Homeland Security kingpin and Israel First stooge Michael Chertoff. Hearst’s top management is almost exclusively Jewish.

41 Comments on The ‘Boeing 757’ That Magically Vaporized in Shanksville on 9/11

  1. It didn’t magically vaporize. It was shot down by the Air National Guard. There was a “second debris field,” reported on CNN.

    • 6 to 8 miles away, only small pieces and hardly a “field”- makes little sense.And found two days later, really? I don’t think any 757 went down.The last interview in the post describes the incoming.

      • Flight 93 did not go down in a little hole in the ground without debris in Shanksville. It landed at Cleveland Airport at 10:45 on 9/11 during an ongoing government agency terror drill that had begun hastily evacuating everyone on foot at 10 am. The 182 passengers on 93 were disembarked into the NASA Glenn Research Center at 11:15 as reported by the Akron Beacon Journal. The Delta Flight 1989 that had landed earlier was not disembarked of its 69 passengers plus crew until 12:30 pm and that was into the FAA hangar. The NASA and FAA hangars are a mile apart at opposite ends of the airport. The Cleveland Plain Dealer confused the issue they reported of agency interrogations happening at the NASA center. WCPO reported around 11:43 am that Flight 93 landed in Cleveland at 10:45. Its site was scrubbed by 2004 of this report at the time of the 9/11 Commission which never looked at Cleveland. WCPO tried to claim their 9/11 report was an erroneous AP report but had already said it was from their own local staff, and AP was never cited at the time they issued it. Mayor White mentioned a possibly hijacked plane from Boston landing citing 200 passengers. Delta 1989 with 69 passengers landed at 10:10 and United Airlines confirmed that 93 was the flight that landed at 10:45. When Christopher Bollyn contacted Mayor White for an explanation of what he said, he refused to do an interview. When Kidd filed a FOIA for FAA records of what landed in Cleveland on 9/11 they initially claimed they had no records, then revised that scrubbing the record of Flight 93 landing completely. So nothing to see in Cleveland, except the link below maybe.
        I don’t doubt there are a few discrepancies in unraveling whether some of the allegedly Bin Laden-hijacked flights on 9/11 even occurred . All of the evidence trails to Cleveland were dropped by choreographed mainstream media immediately after 9/11. We are left with a few certainties like absurdity.

        “Mom, this is Mark Bingham”.

        Meanwhile Cleveland is doing so awesome in this New American Century, right on plan, you gotta love the place. The “heartland” and all that-

  2. I don’t understand how the missiles that hit the WTC were made to appear crude facsimiles of passenger planes, but real they weren’t.

    And yes, there’s always a manifesto, a passport or suicide note that is found in good condition. No serial-numbered part, mind you, out of in hundreds of thousands.

    United 93 was a polished exercise in fantasy, I’ve got to admit.

  3. And they put their vast army of media conscripts to work, mouthing absolute gibberish to attempt to explain away the inexplicable…like these two jokers from “Popular Gymnastics”

  4. Do not understand why so many so-called truth people still believe ANY airplanes were use on 9/11….. Israeli Special FX company created 9/11 ‘news’ videos going into the towers…. why do people insist on involving airplanes in any of their scenarios…. same as people who talk about ‘viruses’ and ‘vaccinations’ even when both are not what they say… jeez no airplanes on 9/11 on google gives you crap and links to guess what? ALL [fake] SCENARIOS THAT INVOLVE ‘planes’. c’mon man 😉

    • Interesting.

      Well, I was in the East Village (East 7th Street and Cooper Square; northside: on my way to a job when I witnessed the first plane drive very hard and very fast into the tower.

      Now, I can agree and have been very clear on numerous threads here at WW, that what I saw looked to be a Lear Jet and nothing larger. As I hailed a cab to travel uptown for the job, I pointed out the situation to the cab driver and we both agreed prayer was a good idea (he was a Muslim and I am a Christian) at that moment. We then made the journey to the Upper West Side (I still have the receipt from the ride as a reminder).

      Now part of the reason I did not think anything was too unusual about the event at the time was as follows:

      1. I knew the history of my hometown and recalled that a B-25 had once hit the Empire State Building and the structure is still with us today

      2. As a youth, I had wanted to be a pilot, so my father took me for some lessons out at Teterboro Airport and there were lots of Yuppies with private jets at the airport back then. Many were taking lessons and often looked the worse for the wear on a Saturday morning (never mind a weekday).

      To give you a perspective if the time, in my first lesson we flew over Giants Stadium and I could see the New Jersey Generals practicing on the field. Although I was flying a single prop Cessna, I can confirm that there were many Lear Jets and similar models at the time in that airport.

      Take away:

      On the morning of 9/11, I honestly thought some “coked up” fool took flew his Lear Jet out of Teterboro Airport, and took a wrong turn thereby colliding with the tower.

      The plume of fire and smoke was relatively small. As the cab traveled north and I looked back, I thought that maybe two floors, at the most, might have been affected in only one corner of the tower.


      3. There was very little news on the whole matter, even within 45 minutes of the impact on 1010 WINS news, which was unusual for NYC.

      When the 1993 bomb went off in the World Trade Center complex, the news was nearly instant that at least something had occurred (no details, but an event and a warning to stay clear of the area).

      Now if you wish to postulate that a second plane (I was working at that point and only saw / heard the news as the city began to shut down) did not exist or that this was an Operations Northwoods ( type situation, then I can give you those conclusions and be okay with it; however, if you are going to say:


      then we are going to have to disagree. If you were there that morning, then give me your location and what you did or did not see so we can discuss the perspective. Please also tell me how you tried to volunteer to help out your friends and neighbors after the event, no matter how it occurred or what the root cause was and what you saw in the rubble.

      If you were not there, then I would (RESPECTFULLY) ask that you be a little kinder to those of us who had to live through the event and the months afterward downtown.

      Some of us lost our livelihoods / businesses and had to begin our lives all over again after the event. Further, I do not even care to think about the cloud that hung over our heads for months and / or the air we were all breathing.

      Thank you.

      Simple Citizen

      • The no plane theory holds that it was a hologram or a large missile dressed up as an airliner and for show. I personally hold to the latter theory and the smaller aircraft you witnessed would be consistent with that. The real damage to the buildings however was internal.

        • RW,

          First, good to see you today.

          Second, I hold a hybrid theory of both internal (implosion / controlled demolition) and external (at least as far as the first plane that I saw). Any object flying into something will make some form of damage, so I do not think I was wrong to assume that the small jet would have cause a small fire and bit of smoke (as described).

          Now, could the plane collide with the tower and cause very little damage? Sure.

          Could charges have been triggered at the time of collision Absolutely.

          Yet, from the witness standpoint, charge and collision would have had perfect synchronicity in order to occur at impact as two steps in the event. All of which is feasible, but I doubt some of the likelihood of “perfect timing”.

          So what I would propose is a minor explosion (as I described) from the impact of the small jet. Then a possibly trigger for expanding situation even as I took moments away from looking at the tower and also my vision being obscured as we drove uptown. So the ideas of a block of 4-6 offices would not have been the result of the small jet’s impact, but of a second causality. Certainly this (to me / humbly) would indicate a hybrid of situations and make many of the additional research very plausible (which I have no issue at all with).

          From the hologram standpoint, I cannot really provide much information.

          RW, I was sucked into a attending a “wine and cheese” function back in 97′ and the artist Ms. Lori Anderson (Mr. Lou Reed’s partner) had a tiny little hologram set up as part of the exhibition (maybe 8″ tall by 4″ wide by 6″ deep or so — she was in a rocking chair talking and singing — believe it or not it was the most exciting thing in the whole show and that is not saying much); this is my only experience with a hologram in which I was in the same room (sure I have seen pictures and videos, but that is the only one I saw up close).

          As for the missile…yeah, it could be possible; however, the jet had a full “jet body” if you will. Wings, windows, a tail, and a Lear type nose (which differs from other noses of similar sized craft, which is why I thought Lear specific). So I guess it could be a dressed missile, yet if so — they did a really good job of dressing it up.

          From a time perspective, I saw the jet within about two minutes or less of the impact. There were no cabs on the block, the sky was beautiful / clear and I was simply looking up to avoid the dust, blowing a bit on the street, from getting into my eyes (which many of us did when in a fixed point, after a street cleaning).

          After impact, I had a cab in about two more minutes or less (driver came zooming up the block probably from the gas station near the Puck Building where they used to change shifts, hangout and fuel up).

          Then I pointed out the smoke and fire (which was really small at the time). We both sat there for about three minutes or so discussing / praying for folks and then off we went.

          He checked 1010 WINS at my suggestion and left the radio there, and we heard nothing for the entire ride. My visual was lost at around Astor Place and past Union Square, but then he began to head toward Chelsea / West Side and I could see the tower again. That is when it looked like 2 floors and 4-8 offices (or an office block – north east facing side of the tower).

          Then I paid no more attention to it, because I thought it would be fine. Sure I prayed for any loss of life (including any pilot who might have been having a really f-ed up morning); however, I had a job for a client (a spec. shoot) and needed to get my “head in the game”.

          After arriving at the photo studio, we had about 3 – 4 hours to work, and then the day took a completely different turn; however, that is another story for another time.

          Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

          All my best,

          • Oh yeah…

            WW friends,

            I mention the loss livelihood, over the loss of life, because I was trying to keep my response to my own experience and not debate lives with anyone.

            None of my friends, including:

            1. People working in the shopping mall, under the complex

            2. People working at the Bank of New York near the complex

            3. Even the one gentleman who controlled a desk at NYBOT (father of an old friend, and one half of the couple who gave me the Schmeling biography) was fine. Shaken up? Oh yes, BIG TIME…but fine.

            So none of the friends and / or associates that Mrs. Simple Citizen or I had at the time were killed or even badly hurt (one sprained ankle when departing the mall). We were extremely blessed and relieved.


            • One last:

              RW – did I mention that the same exhibition had a 1960s or 70s men’s urinal mounted to a flat (fake wall) that had been painted as blue sky, with big (fluffy) white clouds (think cartoon sky and clouds)?

              Yes my friend, the great urinal in the sky! Isn’t modern art fun?

              This is one of the reasons that holograph was the best piece / presentation there.

              Certainly there was not enough cheap Chardonnay in the entire building to improve this “collection”; the night is most memorable by how bad the “works” were, and that I saw a hologram up close.


      • I wasn’t in NYC that day but I know several people who watched the planes hit from their office windows. Post September 2001 I became pretty obsessed with what had actually occurred – the 911 timeline was a daily visit for me like a giant jigsaw puzzle of weird anomalies. Still have that mentality today, it was good training.

        There are various frame grabs of the WTC planes that suggest a large fuselage bulge consistent with GoldenEye or similar remote control operation. I tend to go with ‘plane converted into missile’.

        The Pentagon & Shanksville are almost certainly missile hits. What haunts me is where the people supposedly on those commercial airliners disappeared to.

        • You are welcome. Also, great to see you here today!

          Please tell me that Mr. SHH is not going to have to replace the pipes after the recent events; I am praying he does not (actively praying after your response to me).

          Trust me, I love a good plumping project (once thought about this occupation as well since some of my family were life long plumbers and quite happy), but what you described seemed like too much, especially since he had already done this job in 2011.

          Keeping good thoughts and prayers for you all!


      • Good warm up for the upcoming 20th Anniversary!

        Two bits:

        a. many many people (prof airline pilots) have said that the objects filmed hurtling towards the towers were flying impossibly fast for a commercial jumbo jet – no way anyone could control a jumbo jet flying at that altitude at that speed – prof pilots have tried it in flight simulators – they all “crashed”

        b. I do not agree with Simple Citizen about “3 .. very little news ” – my memory sitting in a dentist’s chair at 8:45 and on that morning was that the news bulletins on the muzak station were timely and frequent.

        But memories diverge – what is much more interesting is how the local NYC TV stations migrated from “local” news teams to national (i.e. Dan Rather) – up until almost noon it was the local teams – and there were numerous eye witness reports regarding subterranean and ground level explosions … but come noon and Dan Rather – (I must have been glued to the tube for 10 solid hours) – there was not one.word.more about “explosions”.

        • RL,

          Thank you for your thoughts.

          If you do not mind, where were you in the city on that day? Where was the dentist office located that was receiving the news, because 1010 WINS for my taxi ride spent most of its time talking about baseball and the weather?

          Once I was in the studio (maybe close to 9:10 ish), I did not hear or see any news until close to noon.

          By the time I arrived home at 5 PM ish,

          (had to walk from West End all the way down to the East Village that day and the adventure could fill its own book — also had to retrieve Mrs. Simple Citizen from a checkpoint at 14th and 4th that evening)

          we had no television, telephone, cellular phone and / or internet. So I took out the old “rabbit ears” and connected them for local reception. Then we went and had Thai food (nothing in the fridge back then…Mrs. SC was my girlfriend at the time), and tried to figure out how we could reach family and friends.

          The following days were extremely surreal, and with regard to the television, I can only recall the constant Mayoral / Police Chief press briefings; they seemed extremely frequent.

          As for:

          “many many people (prof airline pilots) have said that the objects filmed hurtling towards the towers were flying impossibly fast for a commercial jumbo jet – no way anyone could control a jumbo jet flying at that altitude at that speed – prof pilots have tried it in flight simulators – they all “crashed” ”

          Well, I am not a professional pilot of any kind; I took some lessons and that was that; however, the plane I saw hit was flying straight at the tower. There was ZERO turn of any kind. It was small, looked like a Lear Jet and moving fast

          (as someone might who had previously [perhaps] done an eight ball and decided a morning in the Lear Jet light would be “fun”…I assumed maybe they were headed to Long Island and got mixed up by the very large tower in their way).

          Hey in 300 Mercer Street (around 88′ or 89′), we had a woman who was having “marital difficulties” and decided to spend the better part of her day indoor skiing, Colombian style. She seemed to have the mistaken idea that coke provided the user wings and went form the penthouse to the street, without using one of the very fine elevators that the building possessed.

          Based on that experience alone, I do not think my hypothesis that day would have been too far off (coke + Lear Jet + tower = a little boom boom).

          Oh well, I am glad that I am not the only one here who was in the city that day. It is always good to meet other folks who went through it.

          Thanks. Please be well.


          • thanks for reading my note- it seems that I did “go through it” – but at a point in NJ about 20 miles due west of the WTC.

            I have never had “cable” so all my TV viewing was via “rabbit ears”! – the broadcast antennas for the NYC stations were located on the top of the north (?) tower – so all local broadcast TV went down for a period. CBS alone was able to switch over to an antenna on the Empire State Bldg – I joined them (with an extremely poor quality image – I recall we called it “static”) at about 10am and saw the collapse of the first tower.

            Ed in SL City above has very ably seconded my point about the impossibility of flying a jumbo jet at that speed and altitude.

            Your Lear jet thinking is new to me.

            My first view of the scene was from Hoboken on Sept 24 – I will never forget the horrid stench of the fire (that electrical fire odor) – On or about Nov 2 I was as near as one could get to the scene and watched flames flare up … 100-200 feet (hard to say) – I believe it was the longest duration fire (in a structure) in US history.

            • Okay, I am not sure how Hoboken (which I am very familiar with) was receiving the news ahead of us in Manhattan. Yet, I do not have a problem with you statements; I am just rather surprised.

              So you moved from NJ to the area around the Mexico border? If you do not mind me asking, then why?

              You gave up connectivity to a large degree for intermittent communication. This is admirable, but the “WHY” still permeates the mind.

              As for Ed, good luck on his path. It is all YouTube and WordPress, without actual people living in Manhattan at the time.

              I would (humbly) recommend an open mind.


              • Seems I confused you with horsegirl who lives on the U.S. / Mexican border; I have spoken with her a few times (very pleasant lady).

                Mea culpa; based on your writing, I would guess you are still in New Jersey. Either way, I did not wish to leave a loose end.

                Again, sorry for that mix up.

                Also NY1 was not broadcasting from the North Tower; Mrs. Simple was kind enough to remind me of this point, just recently. All mayoral and police briefing were aired on NY1, well before any major network channels were reestablished.

                Still don’t know what radio channel that the dentist in Hoboken had on between 8:45 and 9:15 ish, but if there is (heaven forbid) another national emergency, then please head back to that office because they seem a clear channel to the Lord Almighty when it comes to news.

                (just a little humor; not an insult)


  5. People are still stunned at the “how it happened”,
    imho thats secondary, more important would be to clarify forever “who did it”
    so we can avoid those in future.

    Guess i linked James M Rockefellers website here before, but again the details and connections he lists are just too amazing to miss, i saved the whole website offline.

    “Who was responsible for 9/11?”
    “Israeli intelligence and Saudi financial support.”

  6. My dad was in the Air Force for 22 years and when I was just a little tyke he would take me out on the tarmac periodically and thus began my lifelong fascination with jets. There isn’t a major commercial or civilian aviation disaster that I haven’t looked into to some degree. Anything from the unbelievable series of events that led up to the Tenerife Airport disaster in March of 1977 to Payne Stewart’s famous Learjet cabin depressurization in October of 1999.

    A few of my favorite YT channels are:

    1- 777 pilot Juan Brown’s Bloncolirio channel. Juan is superb at analyzing piloting and aviation accidents. (

    2- The Flight Channel which has numerous ‘short docs’ on countless aviation accidents over the years. 1.15 million subs!(

    3- Jerry Dyer at Big Jet TV channel. Jerry is just a big kid who still loves him some airplanes! He simply parks himself and his high-rez camera next to London’s Heathrow(sometimes other airports)for 3-4hrs and films jets comin’ and going.(

    My conclusions regarding the events at the WTC complex on 9-11 are that there were no planes at all, other than the designated 4 involved in the narrative that were eventually diverted and NOT hijacked! Anyone who understands the engineering and physics of commercial airliners and WTC 1, 2, & 7 knows that events would have not happened the way they did had actual jets collided into these buildings. Other than the engines and landing-gear, the rest of an airplane is light-weight and no match for steel. Most of the weight(other than the engines/LG)is in the fuel and passengers! The rest can be torn asunder by any violent event!

    WTC 1 & 2 both had double-rowed steel I-beams that would have caused any large jet colliding with these buildings to initially smash-up and ‘flatten’ upon impact, then, mostly fall into the street below. The engines alone on large jets are mounted by 3 triangulated ‘fuse-pins’ that are designed to have the engines tear-off BEFORE any damage can be sustained to the wings while in flight. The engines(which are the heaviest and toughest part of the plane)should have been found mostly intact on the Manhattan street below long before the impending collapse.

    Most of the rest of the damaged fuselage, wings, horizontal & vertical stabilizers, landing-gear, and passengers ALSO would have mostly fallen to the street below, but with significant damage sustained to them. covers many of the central issues regarding the ‘no planes’ as well as anomalies like the ‘disappearing plane’ and ‘nose-out’ plane involved in the video footage. Here:

    I believe that WTC 1 & 2 came down in a combination of Judy Wood’s DEW conclusions and pre-planted explosives within. I do believe that WTC 7 possibly was just a normal controlled demolition. No plane at the Pentagon either! Most likely a missle! Most people do not realize that a commercial airliner CANNOT fly at over 600mph at ground level. Physically impossible due to air-density and impossible piloting ability!

    As far as the ‘incident’ at Shanksville is concerned,…only a camel-brained meathead believes a plane crashed in that ‘hole’ that was created. Dufus Shanksville coroner Wallace Miller said that when he arrived on scene, “remains of what was a mammoth 757 were scattered amongst the trees.” Child please! It’s obvious that Mr. Miller received his ‘marching orders’ at some point! It is amazing how many people still do buy the ‘official narrative’ now almost 20yrs removed!

    • Most interesting, thank you. Did you know re: “WTC 1 & 2 both had double-rowed steel I-beams that would have caused…” that on or about Sept 13 – the NY Times published a near full page report with eye-catching diagrams that explicitly denied that there were ANY steal beams positioned on the outside walls of the towers. Rather it was a “radical new design” in which all the steal beams were located in the interior elevator towers – and the floors were “hung” on that support … all going to show it had a tragic design flaw that accounted for it collapsing in floor-by-floor fashion.

      To their credit, shortly after they published a brief letter from the one of the architects involved in the construction who wrote that the account was absolutely false – there were, as you say, “steel I-beams” along the exterior walls.

      End of story.

      (In my defense, I stopped reading the NY Times in 1998 (tired already of being called a racist weekly, at least) – but picked it up daily from 9/11-to 12/31/01 – I can hardly have touched a copy a dozen times since then…. it was a “religion” in my childhood home as one recent but short-termed chief editor said)

      • RL,


        There was a lot of aluminum in the exterior, which if we are speaking of aluminum foil has a great resistance to heat. Yet when we add other flammables to the mix, at a decent heat, then aluminum crashes upon itself.

        The exterior of the towers might have been made of foil. It was in no way sound and anyone who spent time in the area (including going to the Top of the Tower, as this individual did), knew that this was “throw away architecture, just like Penn Stations after they demoralized it.

        This was Rockefeller garbage, unlike the Empire State Building, but the family was always duplicitous with the times.


    • “Anyone who understands the engineering and physics of commercial airliners…”

      I see.

      “WTC 1 & 2 both had double-rowed steel I-beams that would have caused any large jet colliding with these buildings to initially smash-up and ‘flatten’ upon impact, …”

      Consider kinetic energy: KE = 0.5(m)(v**2) — for a moving object, KE is proportional to the mass and to the square of the velocity (i.e. as speed increases, KE increases rapidly) — a loaded jet airliner traveling at 500mph has tremendous kinetic energy — engineers and physicists have done finite element analyses of 9/11, and concluded that due to its KE a plane could definitely have penetrated the facade of the WTC.

      Let me put it another way so that it’s clear: if you could accelerate it to a sufficient velocity, you could ram a balloon thru the facade of the WTC — believe it or not.

      • Good point and true. Especially the glass, and the weaker point in which the glass connected to the frame.

        Also, the building did vibrate quite a bit on a good day (very little wind, clear, sunny), which you could really feel up at Windows on the World. That vibration caused fluctuations in structural integrity. On a bad night (which I was there during as well), the motion could make one feel a bit ill (and a friend of mind needed to leave, because she was feeling quite ill from the movement of the tower on a cold / windy night).

        eah — I had forgotten all about this point until I began typing to you and recalled the restaurant — many thanks! Talk about getting the cob webs out of the attic.


    • I am a no planer. But what does “no real plane” mean exactly. The Crime Syndicate used some smoke and mirrors and if you listen to the comments of people on the ground they describe something that was not a commercial airliner.

      SC’s observation was consistent with that as he described a glimpse of what might have been a smaller aircraft. He never said he knew it was a smaller Lear jet only that it looked like one- a big difference. In otherwords just a guess based on a fleeting glance. I don’t think he claimed otherwise. It could just as easily been a military retrofitted drone.

        • Just for a minute, lets consider what actually occurred here and I would ask that folks please look at the time signatures for what I am saying.

          1. Yesterday I read this thread (which I typically do, even when I do not comment).

          2. Then I came to the comments and felt I saw a troll (who incidentally never returned)named “Noplanes…”.

          3. I typed my first response and offered to have a dialogue about what I witnessed and the day (mind open). Never heard back.

          4. Mr. Winter then issued a response to me in which he had a different perspective. I had ZERO issue with his point of view and was willing to listen, engage in dialogue and learn together. That is the key reason that I come to WW over any other place on the web. I have ZERO presence outside of WW and only read Lew Rockwell with some regularity (occasionally I go on Zero Hedge to read, the Wall Street Journal for the same reason, and Bloomberg Asia for the exact same reason — I never, ever comment).

          5. Then I had really nice dialogues with nl and shh. Nl and I did not exactly agree, but we were very polite to one another.

          6. I left and came back to see if “Noplane…” had come back so that we could try and converse. Instead I ran into Ed and RL. Although RL and I disagreed, we were our usual respectful selves; I misunderstood and thought she was in Manhattan that day, but it turned out she was in Hoboken; a bit different, but no issue on my end. I still respect her.

          7. Ed, who I normally get along with very well and typically respect, seemed to be at odds with what I had written. He did not challenge me head on, but his post seemed to offer an aggressive challenge to what I wrote. I responded in-kind and then went to bed.

          8. Woke up the morning to check the new thread…got here before it was posted and checked in n this one. Ed had issued a response; I responded again in-kind (all of which has been rightfully removed as it was really negative).

          9. Then I saw JWR and tried to do a very respectful and neutral response to say, “I get you, but would you consider…”.

          10. Then Julius appeared out of no where (also gone from the thread) and decided to get into it with me, partly because JS seems to enjoy witty banter and partially as a challenge. I responded in-kind and then left the blog.

          Do I feel bad that Ed and I got into it? Sure, generally we get along very well and I would like to think we have helped one another learn.

          Certainly, I have had many wonderful conversations with Ed in the past and I have trusted him regarding some of his references. If you review past threads, I have sent many compliments Ed’s way and praised his intelligence. Yet, it seemed as though Ed was not being the Ed I have known and enjoyed speaking with.

          Further, I did my best to simply and / plainly state what I witnessed to offer perspective; however, I added that I am really open to other people’s thoughts and theories on the day, which I completely am. I (simply) tried to tell how my day went and what I saw…that was it. I never said it was “my way or the highway”, and I did not go “big guns” on a single soul until Ed decided to imply I was lying.

          Whether this response stays up or not is out of my control; however, it does explain my side of the issue here.


          • Last one:

            So I have flown on a private Cessna jet, but never on a Learjet. Yet, I watched the video that Mr. Winter posted and was wracking my brain to consider why Learjet popped into my head that morning. What I saw looked a little like this:


            Which I did see similar if not the same model at Teterboro in the 1980s. Yet, and this is going to sound really, really odd when I was looking at Learjets, this prototype was more closely matching what I feel was the correct plane was (or closest to what I believe I witnessed):


            Now I concede that there are no engines mocked up on this prototype, but the shape and length feel more correct than the 31, which would make no sense since the prototype did not exist in 2001 and was never produced later on.

            It looked white, long, appeared to have windows, had a similar nose to the prototype (more so than the 31), had a tail, one side mounted engine from my sight-line, wings and ZERO marking that I could see (no company logo or funny markings of any kind).

            That one did not appear gray from my view, but that morning was also very sunny and so who knows if a reflection appeared white as opposed to gray; I cannot say definitively on this color point. From my view, white would have been the best way to describe it.

            As stated, I knew about the B-29 from a History Channel documentary (in the 1990s) that was discussing the Empire State Building (then I did a little reading about that crash later), so I just said a prayer and headed to work; I had no clue what would follow and thought nothing else of the whole matter.

            To my mind, the Empire State Building was a far better constructed building and could take a big hit, but since this plane (Trade Center) was so small, I did not think anything was really up other than a pilot error.


              • Yes sir. I would concur.

                So I watched the video you linked over here a few times now. This is the first time that I can recall ever hearing from folks that witnessed the first event like me. Even friends in Manhattan, who worked in the complex did not see external sights, because they were already in work or not close to even arriving at that point in time. Also, I do own a Ring of Power DVD documentary in storage that has interviews of people witnessing the second event.

                First – Thanks for that link.

                Second – The firefighter and I have a really different perspective of where the “item” (trying to be respectful to others and be kind in my choice of words) originates from.

                Where I was standing, the park is directly across from me. The college is to my right (a block north). If the college is 12 o’clock and the park is 9 o’clock then the towers are 7 – 8 o’clock. The only sides of the towers I see from that vantage point are the east side and north side surfaces. I cannot see anything south or west.

                The “item” was traveling north to south and impacted the north east corner from my sight-line; however, (and I am not doubting this man at all — we are just different) the firefighter states that the first item came up from the south and flew over their heads. There would be ZERO way I could see anything coming up from the south at my vantage point.

                Hence, Teterboro again in my own mind. That airport is northwest of Manhattan. You would want to fly south along the river if you were an “executive” (being nice again) wanting to get out to Long Island on a morning jaunt. So you would start in New Jersey, fly south along the river on the west side, make a turn at the end tip of Manhattan, then proceed to fly north on the east side to head toward LI.

                If you flew into the building at your earliest convenience (perhaps you had a lot of “coffee” that morning), then you would be striking the north side.

                Now I really have not spent this amount of time thinking on these details for over a decade, so this trip down memory lane has been fascinating and I realize some of my own details are beginning to fade. This is not so much about the morning, or the evening before (Mrs. SC and I had a really nice French dinner near old St. Patrick’s Cathedral downtown); however in speaking with Mrs. SC, we differ on details about what followed the 11th and how events took place chronologically.

                So for what it is worth, this thread has been helpful in retracing some shared history around here.


                • Okay, here is the only complete footage that I am aware of the first “incident”:


                  Sorry, it took me a while to recall and find a decent copy.

                  Respectfully: look at the tail around 0:25; it still looks white to me and they are down on the west side; I was in the east village

                  Now I am not saying anyone is wrong, I am saying that although I have no known color blind issue that I am aware of, that tail still looks like a white plane to me. Also the angle in that video and my angle do not seem to jive; however, we are near 20 years on and so I may be wrong in some of my recollection.

                  Also, with the sound and explosion, notice how the explosion is very brief and the simmers down. That is exactly as I described here and maintained since that day. It was no where nearly as big as it grew to become at the exact time following the “incident”.

                  Now I will be very polite and say “craft” and “incident”, but I will also politely pose this question:

                  Does anyone want to tell those fire fighters that they did not see a plane that morning to their faces?

                  Anyone want to tell them that what they witnessed could not be correct, postulate some theories, and explain that they were a bunch of fools or idiots? Maybe call them liars?

                  Good luck with that. Certainly, I would not wish to be the guy who did.

                  Mr. Winter’s theory of a duck made to look like a goose is very reasonable and I can appreciate it. In fact I am viewing a documentary he suggested right now.

                  Yet, even if he is extremely correct and he could very well be (I remain open minded), I would bet that I am not the only guy, in all of Manhattan, that felt there was a first plane, and a hybrid attack was a possibility

                  Maybe it was a drone or a missile, but again why not actually track down and ask those firefighters to see what they thought it really was if you care about the complete truth?

                  If they say I am wrong and an as-hole for even thinking that way, fine I will accept it. They were closer to the “incident” than I was, which I have been very honest about.

                  Yet what about if they say you are wrong? Will you accept it? They like me were there.

                  Will you simply be gracious and understand the whole event was confusing, or will you get in their faces and tell them that they are wrong?

                  Again, I am one man who can handle himself. They are many men who can handle themselves…good luck with that exercise should you have the courage to do so.

                  If a hybrid occurred and a controlled demolition followed a first hit by an “object” well you would have a hybrid of an attack: external followed by internal “events”.

                  Certainly, I have been aware for years about the Bush family, the Mossad, the artists squatting in the building, the dancing Israelis, the surviving hijackers, the surviving [alleged] passengers, and on and on — and I willingly concede all could be very correct. Yet, to concede these points does not necessarily discount what I said as entirely wrong or deliberately misleading; it is simply a difference from an experience.

                  Now I am not going to cause any further headaches for Mr. Winter or Torchy…they are good folks who have been nothing but gracious toward me. Over the weekend, I intend to finish the 4 + hour documentary Mr. Winter referred me to (in capsules of time to allow for other activities around here) and I will keep an open mind. Hopefully, I will not be the only one in the Commentariat doing so on this topic or other topics in the future.


  7. if they were holograms or missiles, we could prove it. big thing about 757 is where was it going? it was about 40 minutes from building 7 and would have been right on time. the people re-hijacked it from the hijackers then suddenly went dark. calls were made from the plane. gov probably had to silence them with a missile so they didnt create a conflicting story if they managed to land the plane

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